In Episode 150 of “The Trusted Advisor,” RSPA CEO Jim Roddy talks “flexible leadership” with Bill Fultz, the General Manager of software provider LINGA. Among the topics discussed are adapting your leadership approach to each individual vs. having one set leadership style, slowing initiatives down to ensure they have a strong foundation and can survive over time, and delivering candid feedback most effectively.
“The Trusted Advisor,” powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association (RSPA), is an award-winning content series designed specifically for retail IT VARs and software providers. Our goal is to educate you on the topics of leadership, management, hiring, sales, and other small business best practices. For more insights, visit the RSPA blog at www.GoRSPA.org.
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Full episode transcript via Apple Podcasts:
00:00:07.372 –> 00:00:14.872
Roddy: Welcome to another episode of The Trusted Advisor Podcast and Video Series, powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:00:14.872 –> 00:00:20.232
Roddy: Our goal on the pod is to accelerate the success of today’s and tomorrow’s leaders in the retail IT industry.
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Roddy: I’m Jim Roddy back with you again.
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Roddy: Thank you so much for joining us.
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Roddy: As always, we talk to the leaders in the retail IT channel about their leadership journeys and what they’ve learned along the way.
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Roddy: In this episode, we’ll talk with Bill Fultz.
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Roddy: He’s the general manager for Linga, a restaurant and retail software that’s been under the PNC bank umbrella since a 2022 acquisition.
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Roddy: Bill began his retail IT channel career with VAR Delaware Business Systems serving as general manager from 2004 to 2008, and then company president from 2009 to 14.
00:00:51.412 –> 00:01:02.292
Roddy: He moved to the vendor side for the next 11 years, first as director of product at MenuSoft, which was acquired by Heartland, which was then acquired by Global Payments, where Bill served as VP of Product POS.
00:01:02.292 –> 00:01:08.412
Roddy: Bill joined Linga in early 2025, and he also is a part owner in three restaurants.
00:01:08.412 –> 00:01:12.712
Roddy: This fall, he’s planning on entering a hotel business as a co-owner.
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Roddy: Bill, welcome to The Trusted Advisor.
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Fultz: Thanks, Jim.
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Fultz: It’s really great to be here.
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Roddy: Thank you.
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Roddy: Great to have you.
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Roddy: So as I mentioned, you’ve been with Linga for about a year now, and I remember you and I go way back well beyond that, and when you were coming on board with Linga, you had shared with me your plans for a channel-friendly go-to-market strategy, and I know some of our resellers listening to the audience might be like, wait a second, a bank with a channel-friendly business strategy, that’s certainly different.
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Roddy: So can you talk about that strategy with our listeners, and then give us an update of how that’s progressing?
00:01:45.472 –> 00:01:46.412
Fultz: Yeah, happy to.
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Fultz: So I think that to start at the very beginning, is when I had moved on from Global Payments as VP of product there, and obviously had been a huge part of the channel program that had grown there, I was actually looking to lead the industry, looking to do something completely different.
00:02:03.252 –> 00:02:13.772
Fultz: I was sort of burnt out as it were, and we’ve done a lot of great things, very happy with what we have been able to do, and do it in partnership with our community and the channel.
00:02:13.772 –> 00:02:27.392
Fultz: But the world just felt very stale, and it felt very much like a numbers game, and relationships mattered less and less, and merchants were suffering, and bars and dealers were suffering in this.
00:02:27.452 –> 00:02:32.612
Fultz: And so I really had no intentions of doing it all over again.
00:02:32.612 –> 00:02:37.412
Fultz: And then PNC came knocking, and I said, yeah, I’m not interested, thanks.
00:02:37.412 –> 00:02:38.412
Fultz: Thanks, but no thanks.
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Fultz: I’m familiar with what you guys did, but I saw what some other banks have done with point of sales, and yeah, it feels the same.
00:02:47.452 –> 00:02:48.932
Fultz: But they kept knocking, thankfully.
00:02:48.932 –> 00:02:52.352
Fultz: And so I tested them, and I said, look, I have some things of you.
00:02:53.392 –> 00:03:11.992
Fultz: It would be interesting if PNC, which has over 1,600 outlets across North America, predominantly in the US, if you guys were able to leverage that with a community of channel partners, and that we actually worked in our communities together, that would be interesting.
00:03:11.992 –> 00:03:19.092
Fultz: It would be interesting if we weren’t a payments-first software because we have to type strategy.
00:03:19.092 –> 00:03:20.032
Fultz: That would be interesting.
00:03:21.092 –> 00:03:29.632
Fultz: It would be interesting if we let our partners decide how and what we do with the merchants because ultimately, they’re their customers or they’re their merchants.
00:03:29.632 –> 00:03:33.712
Fultz: We understand the position and a number of other things.
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Fultz: Shockingly, they said, of course, that makes a lot of sense.
00:03:38.252 –> 00:03:39.792
Fultz: That’s what we’ve been thinking.
00:03:39.792 –> 00:03:41.872
Fultz: That’s why we want you here.
00:03:42.812 –> 00:03:43.992
Fultz: That obviously gave me pause.
00:03:44.112 –> 00:03:46.232
Fultz: Well, this could get interesting.
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Fultz: This is a lot different.
00:03:48.072 –> 00:03:54.632
Fultz: I think right now, we’re in a space in our industry where there’s a couple buckets that organizations fall into.
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Fultz: There’s the startup entrepreneurial people who are living from payroll to payroll, just trying to get the next thing, building some really great stuff, and there’s amazing things being done in that space.
00:04:05.052 –> 00:04:08.152
Fultz: But that’s a very stressful environment.
00:04:08.152 –> 00:04:13.412
Fultz: I, for one, I’m getting too old for that, I guess, to put it mildly.
00:04:14.532 –> 00:04:25.872
Fultz: Then you have the awkward middle, I call it, and these are folks who, they built something, they really haven’t reached that profitability or scalability, and so they’re desperate for the exit.
00:04:25.872 –> 00:04:27.472
Fultz: What does that look like for a lot of folks?
00:04:27.472 –> 00:04:28.552
Fultz: Well, it’s getting acquired.
00:04:28.552 –> 00:04:40.952
Fultz: Of course, I was a huge part of that environment for a very long time, acquired and I think I’ve total, I’ve acquired, bought, sold, or built 32 different platforms in retail and hospitality across my career.
00:04:41.412 –> 00:04:52.112
Fultz: I understand that space, I sympathize with it, but when you’re in that mode, it forces you to do things that sometimes you really would not do unless you were in this awkward middle.
00:04:52.112 –> 00:05:01.312
Fultz: Then you have the 1-800, so all the way on the other side of the spectrum and it’s about numbers and managing to a quarterly and shareholders and whatnot.
00:05:01.352 –> 00:05:02.812
Fultz: They knew that.
00:05:03.512 –> 00:05:07.792
Fultz: None of those, frankly, are attractive to me at this point in my career.
00:05:08.852 –> 00:05:13.812
Fultz: I didn’t have it, I didn’t really feel like getting others to come along with me and like, well, we’re going to be different.
00:05:13.812 –> 00:05:20.932
Fultz: Well, PNC and Linga is quite different in the fact that we don’t really fit into any of those buckets.
00:05:20.932 –> 00:05:23.672
Fultz: We’re a 160-year-old company.
00:05:23.672 –> 00:05:30.232
Fultz: There are a few organizations in the world that can actually claim that and successful.
00:05:30.312 –> 00:05:37.092
Fultz: Half a trillion dollars, that’s a pretty big parent company to make that’s got our back.
00:05:37.092 –> 00:05:39.992
Fultz: That gives us and affords us a lot of great things.
00:05:41.192 –> 00:05:42.892
Fultz: We built this program.
00:05:42.892 –> 00:06:07.212
Fultz: Some of the questions that I just mentioned that I laid out with PNC, we’ve been incorporating that and really going over the last, call it six months in reality, leveraging the abilities to be able to be payment agnostic, actually create a channel program that actually looks at multiple parts of the channel, because I think there’s a range of different channel partners that we have the privilege of interacting with.
00:06:07.212 –> 00:06:13.812
Fultz: We have the ability to work with them all, all within this umbrella of independence.
00:06:15.732 –> 00:06:17.532
Fultz: You don’t have to use our payments.
00:06:17.532 –> 00:06:18.812
Fultz: They can use their own payments.
00:06:18.812 –> 00:06:21.132
Fultz: They can partner with multiple payment companies.
00:06:21.132 –> 00:06:23.852
Fultz: If that’s their business model, we have a place for them.
00:06:26.152 –> 00:06:37.632
Fultz: The bottom line is, we signed up more channel partners in Q4 than in the last 18 months combined that Linga had been doing.
00:06:37.632 –> 00:06:45.952
Fultz: We literally have not been advertising because we are just taking the folks who are knocking on our door and getting them boarded and getting them respectfully incorporated in there.
00:06:45.952 –> 00:06:50.432
Fultz: So we really haven’t been actively pursuing.
00:06:50.432 –> 00:06:55.372
Fultz: We’re just finding that there’s this new ecosystem, that’s really resonating with people.
00:06:55.892 –> 00:07:03.032
Fultz: I’ve had VARs where I’ve visited their offices and went through this, and they’re like, that’s not reality.
00:07:03.032 –> 00:07:05.652
Fultz: There’s no way this is true.
00:07:05.652 –> 00:07:07.432
Fultz: Here’s the paperwork to prove it.
00:07:07.432 –> 00:07:09.772
Fultz: Here’s the legalese.
00:07:09.772 –> 00:07:10.792
Roddy: I do have a contract.
00:07:10.792 –> 00:07:12.152
Roddy: This is not just in the market.
00:07:13.012 –> 00:07:13.312
Fultz: Yeah.
00:07:13.312 –> 00:07:14.352
Fultz: This isn’t just words.
00:07:14.692 –> 00:07:17.232
Fultz: It has legitimacy behind it.
00:07:19.372 –> 00:07:27.232
Fultz: One VAR interaction, I won’t mention who they are, because I’m not trying to embarrass them, but it was a husband-wife team.
00:07:27.232 –> 00:07:30.312
Fultz: And they were in tears at the end of it.
00:07:30.312 –> 00:07:33.252
Fultz: And they said, we really thought that this was the end of the industry.
00:07:33.252 –> 00:07:41.052
Fultz: We thought we were just going to have to figure out a way to sell this and get out, because we had come to the end of the road, and it just feels like everything just opened up.
00:07:41.052 –> 00:07:43.372
Fultz: And they’ve been doing great with us.
00:07:43.372 –> 00:07:46.752
Fultz: They’ve been out with us for four months, really starting to get involved.
00:07:46.752 –> 00:07:50.932
Fultz: And we’ve done what I’ve done a lot in the channel, which is bring people together.
00:07:51.032 –> 00:07:52.212
Fultz: I don’t do things in isolation.
00:07:52.212 –> 00:07:53.612
Fultz: I don’t believe in that.
00:07:53.612 –> 00:07:55.652
Fultz: My leadership style, we can talk about that in a bit.
00:07:55.652 –> 00:07:58.852
Fultz: But I really like to put people in a room and have open conversations.
00:07:58.852 –> 00:08:03.272
Fultz: The best ones are ones you know about, but worst conversations are the ones not mentioned.
00:08:03.272 –> 00:08:12.612
Fultz: And so we brought all these partners together who historically within Linga, because they had a number of channel partners prior to our arrival, didn’t even know the others existed.
00:08:12.612 –> 00:08:12.872
Roddy: Yeah.
00:08:12.872 –> 00:08:14.152
Fultz: Didn’t know where you’re going to go.
00:08:14.152 –> 00:08:21.852
Fultz: So when I brought some of those VARs into the room for the first time, we were like, well, this is so and so from here, and this is what they do.
00:08:23.372 –> 00:08:25.092
Fultz: It was culture shock.
00:08:26.292 –> 00:08:34.532
Fultz: Some of them had been partners for a decade, and had never spoken to each other, had never interacted, and we’ve changed that culture.
00:08:34.532 –> 00:08:35.792
Fultz: So we have them talking to each other.
00:08:35.792 –> 00:08:43.312
Fultz: It took us a while for some of them to warm up and realize, hey, we’re better talking together and then trying to run our own playbooks.
00:08:44.532 –> 00:08:50.152
Fultz: I’ve seen great relationships foster outside of even the Linga, impact their meeting.
00:08:50.152 –> 00:08:57.932
Fultz: We’ve got WhatsApp channels, and they’re all communicating with each other directly now and interacting, and that’s just a beautiful thing, beautiful thing.
00:08:57.932 –> 00:08:58.772
Roddy: Yeah.
00:08:58.772 –> 00:08:59.652
Roddy: Thank you for sharing that.
00:08:59.712 –> 00:09:08.712
Roddy: I guess a learning that we’re having from an RSPA standpoint, but it’s not just for ourselves, but it’s throughout our whole community is, like I said, nobody can go this alone.
00:09:08.712 –> 00:09:12.372
Roddy: Nobody internally is going to develop everything that you need for your business.
00:09:12.932 –> 00:09:24.452
Roddy: And so that sense of community, that sense of connection and relationship, that re-dates any, I shouldn’t say any, but really significant business progress.
00:09:24.452 –> 00:09:30.212
Roddy: And that’s really like something that’s really been really loud to us the last couple years, especially.
00:09:30.212 –> 00:09:32.292
Roddy: That’s almost what it sounds like you’re saying.
00:09:32.292 –> 00:09:39.512
Roddy: If you just try to operate in a silo or have your partners operate in silos, you’re only going to get so far.
00:09:39.512 –> 00:09:47.492
Roddy: But if everybody understands each other and there can actually be some synergy, then you can really move faster than you could have even imagined.
00:09:47.492 –> 00:09:57.032
Roddy: And by understanding that’s kind of what you’re saying, that partnership, that core of community, that has to be the foundation of what you’re going to do to be successful in the retail IT channel.
00:09:57.032 –> 00:09:57.852
Fultz: A hundred percent.
00:09:58.392 –> 00:10:09.492
Fultz: And to boil that down and say a practical application of how this looks is, when we got there, and I’m going through my orientation and I’m learning all the things that this business has been doing, good and bad.
00:10:11.872 –> 00:10:21.752
Fultz: I think day three, when I was sitting down with the sales teams and we were looking at pricing, and of course, multiple systems, multiple platforms, lots of pricing strategies.
00:10:21.752 –> 00:10:26.452
Fultz: And after they got done explaining it to me, I think I had a serious headache.
00:10:26.452 –> 00:10:29.352
Fultz: I’m like, I congratulated all of them in the room.
00:10:29.352 –> 00:10:34.152
Fultz: I’m like, you have created the most complex pricing I have ever seen.
00:10:34.172 –> 00:10:37.812
Fultz: And I don’t know if I could say that in a compliment, but you do get the award.
00:10:39.392 –> 00:10:43.932
Fultz: But rather than go in with the sledgehammer, be like, wow, let’s just go do this.
00:10:45.172 –> 00:10:47.272
Fultz: We actually, I said, but we’re going to do this differently.
00:10:47.272 –> 00:10:52.252
Fultz: And we’ve done this actually now multiple times, and people are really starting to understand the value of it.
00:10:52.252 –> 00:10:58.632
Fultz: So when we did the pricing, of course, we started to figure out a model, and we did all of the analysis, and we brought all this stuff together.
00:10:58.632 –> 00:11:00.452
Fultz: And then I said, okay, we’re not going to roll this out.
00:11:00.452 –> 00:11:02.812
Fultz: I’m not even going to ratify that and say, this is actually what we’re going to do.
00:11:03.252 –> 00:11:07.952
Fultz: Let’s go partner to partner, and let’s get their feedback.
00:11:07.952 –> 00:11:09.132
Fultz: Let’s understand.
00:11:09.132 –> 00:11:10.592
Fultz: And this is an idea.
00:11:10.592 –> 00:11:11.852
Fultz: This isn’t a mandate.
00:11:11.852 –> 00:11:13.812
Fultz: This isn’t a decision.
00:11:13.812 –> 00:11:21.332
Fultz: So we did that intentionally for over two months, door to door, virtually, of course, going through it.
00:11:21.332 –> 00:11:22.152
Fultz: We got feedback.
00:11:22.152 –> 00:11:23.152
Fultz: This doesn’t work for me.
00:11:23.152 –> 00:11:24.292
Fultz: I have this client over here.
00:11:24.292 –> 00:11:25.512
Fultz: This would be a horrible structure.
00:11:25.512 –> 00:11:26.212
Fultz: What about that?
00:11:26.212 –> 00:11:32.752
Fultz: There are all these variables that we know about them, but you fail to account for them.
00:11:32.752 –> 00:11:36.492
Fultz: So we kept making tweaks and modifications, tweaks and modifications.
00:11:36.492 –> 00:11:42.292
Fultz: Back around Thanksgiving, we said, okay, after all the feedback, after all the changes, here’s where we’re at, everyone.
00:11:42.292 –> 00:11:43.652
Fultz: What do we think?
00:11:43.652 –> 00:11:46.032
Fultz: Everyone gave it the thumbs up.
00:11:46.032 –> 00:11:48.632
Fultz: So okay, we’re still not going to roll it out.
00:11:48.632 –> 00:11:50.652
Fultz: We’re going to roll it out with our new board of partners.
00:11:50.652 –> 00:11:52.652
Fultz: We have so many of them right now.
00:11:52.652 –> 00:11:57.752
Fultz: I want to see how they do as new partners versus some of our historical old guard.
00:11:57.752 –> 00:11:58.492
Fultz: See how they do with it.
00:11:59.732 –> 00:12:02.872
Fultz: Because I know the old guard, when you have changed, sometimes they don’t adapt to it as well.
00:12:02.872 –> 00:12:06.452
Fultz: That’s just human nature, no indictment.
00:12:06.452 –> 00:12:12.852
Fultz: Well, we saw the uptake on new partners was phenomenally better than what it had been historically.
00:12:12.852 –> 00:12:14.872
Fultz: Well, that wasn’t a surprise.
00:12:14.872 –> 00:12:19.732
Fultz: When we surveyed our new partners and said, how’s this pricing working for you?
00:12:19.732 –> 00:12:28.152
Fultz: I can verbally quote somebody on the spot, and I am within the tax accurate, and it feels really good.
00:12:28.332 –> 00:12:31.292
Fultz: I haven’t been able to do that, I don’t know if ever.
00:12:31.292 –> 00:12:34.052
Fultz: Then we’re like, okay, we’re on to something here.
00:12:34.052 –> 00:12:37.232
Fultz: Then on January of this year, we rolled out to everyone, it’s now available to all.
00:12:37.232 –> 00:12:40.612
Fultz: But it was this very methodical piece of communicating with the channel.
00:12:40.612 –> 00:12:45.752
Fultz: They were as much an architect of this final output as the parent company.
00:12:45.752 –> 00:12:49.932
Fultz: Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what we design, if it doesn’t resonate with them, what have we done?
00:12:49.932 –> 00:12:53.752
Fultz: We’ve added complexity, we’ve added irritation, stress.
00:12:55.712 –> 00:12:59.852
Fultz: There’s plenty of that to go around, just things we can’t control, so we do that a lot.
00:12:59.852 –> 00:13:17.152
Fultz: Even our logo, which has been completely revamped, changed, was a process of intentional micro question surveys over a really rapid 15-day period, where we just kept modifying, modifying, we use some AI to help us accelerate those feedback loops.
00:13:17.232 –> 00:13:22.832
Fultz: By the end of it, I was like, this is now the new brand, and there’s been over 300 of you who’ve helped create it.
00:13:22.912 –> 00:13:28.092
Fultz: It wasn’t my idea, it wasn’t an emotion, it wasn’t someone’s pet project.
00:13:28.092 –> 00:13:30.892
Fultz: This is what happens when we design things as a community.
00:13:33.572 –> 00:13:34.332
Fultz: It’s really fun.
00:13:34.332 –> 00:13:47.112
Fultz: It actually takes a lot of stress off as an organization, like, we don’t have to get it all right because we can rely on our channel, who now knows that we’re serious about taking their feedback and actually making something happen with it.
00:13:47.112 –> 00:13:52.012
Roddy: To me, if you don’t do that methodical collaborative approach, it’s what I call Jack in the Box management.
00:13:52.252 –> 00:13:54.832
Roddy: It’s done all of a sudden, boom, you spring it out.
00:13:54.832 –> 00:13:57.412
Roddy: Everybody gets startled, there’s something that’s wrong with it.
00:13:57.412 –> 00:14:13.792
Roddy: The other thing is, when you’re talking with folks, not the initial individuals about the program, if they say, I don’t like this, part of what you can say is, well, the other 100 people we’ve talked to or 50 or whatever, they seem to like it, so it’s not just some management edict.
00:14:13.792 –> 00:14:21.912
Roddy: It’s interesting you bring that up and it ties in with, I wanted to ask you, I mentioned at the outset that you led a VAR business for about a decade.
00:14:21.912 –> 00:14:25.132
Roddy: How has that shaped your approach as a leader at vendor organizations?
00:14:25.132 –> 00:14:34.372
Roddy: My guess is, you’ve been on the receiving end of Jack in the Box leadership from some of your vendors and you’re like, this does not work for us and you just have to deal with it.
00:14:34.372 –> 00:14:39.752
Roddy: Talk about how is being a VAR impacted you even many years later today?
00:14:41.372 –> 00:14:54.012
Fultz: I don’t think I could overstate how impactful those first 10 or 12 years were, and even before taking on the general management, I was doing deployments and running tech support and taking phone calls.
00:14:57.092 –> 00:15:06.352
Fultz: I’ve been very fortunate, not intentionally, I could take no credit for it, but the career arc that I have had has really built upon each other very naturally.
00:15:07.872 –> 00:15:19.992
Fultz: In those early days, being a VAR, you had to be scrappy, you had to be innovative, you had to figure out how to make recurring revenue work when vendors didn’t have recurring models to work in.
00:15:19.992 –> 00:15:23.352
Fultz: All the challenges that brought and opportunities, to be fair.
00:15:25.272 –> 00:15:27.232
Fultz: I had a huge amount to do.
00:15:27.232 –> 00:15:32.272
Fultz: To your point, yeah, there was a very much, I’ve been in that position and I know what that feels like.
00:15:33.652 –> 00:15:35.472
Fultz: I think that that has served me really well.
00:15:35.472 –> 00:15:43.632
Fultz: I understand the impact of decisions and how they can have consequences far beyond what we really intend them to do.
00:15:44.872 –> 00:15:56.692
Fultz: Being very intentional, trying not to make those mistakes, sometimes it’s necessary in a moment, but you find that that should be the rarity, not the rule.
00:15:56.692 –> 00:15:58.952
Fultz: I think that that’s been a part of it.
00:15:58.952 –> 00:16:19.532
Fultz: I think also, particularly within the VAR, I started to develop, because we were a VAR for some softwares, and back in that day, we’re talking like the micros of the world, and the NCRs, the sun never set on the micros empire or however it went.
00:16:20.112 –> 00:16:25.692
Fultz: We were got some big boys, and we were just this little VAR up in the mid-Atlantic.
00:16:25.692 –> 00:16:34.352
Fultz: At that point, I think it really helped instill, like you can be successful despite Goliath being out there.
00:16:34.352 –> 00:16:37.912
Fultz: I have lots of friends in micros and NCR, I love them all.
00:16:37.912 –> 00:16:44.512
Fultz: But I always envied as that VAR, if I only had a portion of those resources, what we could do.
00:16:44.512 –> 00:16:50.372
Fultz: If I only didn’t have to worry about making payroll next week, what I could really go focus my energy on.
00:16:51.612 –> 00:16:55.032
Fultz: But in others, I’ve seen where that soured them, right?
00:16:55.032 –> 00:16:56.672
Fultz: I can’t win, I can’t do that.
00:16:56.672 –> 00:16:58.132
Fultz: And they’ve sort of gotten this defeat.
00:16:58.132 –> 00:17:01.352
Fultz: I’ve seen that across my fellow dealers at the time.
00:17:01.352 –> 00:17:05.672
Fultz: And you can’t win here, it’s impossible.
00:17:05.672 –> 00:17:11.372
Fultz: I could have taken that approach, but it just helped develop a mindset where it’s like, there’s always challenges.
00:17:11.372 –> 00:17:15.092
Fultz: There’s always the bigger fish in the pond, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be successful.
00:17:15.092 –> 00:17:23.332
Fultz: And it doesn’t mean that you’re still, you can’t find a path that’s good for you and the people in your company.
00:17:23.332 –> 00:17:25.452
Fultz: And so I really learned that.
00:17:25.452 –> 00:17:29.452
Fultz: And not to make excuses, because it’s so easy to make excuses in that space.
00:17:29.512 –> 00:17:36.552
Fultz: And to really just realize you make the destiny that you’re willing to take on to some degree.
00:17:36.552 –> 00:17:38.932
Fultz: And well, there’s a piece where I think that comes critical.
00:17:38.932 –> 00:17:49.552
Fultz: We’ll talk about that a little bit in my journey, where I think I actually played at a personal level, that really was beneficial to learn those lessons early, because I was going to need them later on.
00:17:49.552 –> 00:17:50.132
Roddy: Yeah.
00:17:50.132 –> 00:17:51.312
Roddy: And I guess so that’s well said.
00:17:51.312 –> 00:18:03.892
Roddy: I can’t remember who it was, but it was one of an industry event that somebody said, it might have been Dan Brattlin, I think, from Cochart, was one who said, a lot of small business owners, they say, oh, I’m going to grow to be this big.
00:18:03.892 –> 00:18:08.732
Roddy: And that’s the max that they grow to it, as opposed to saying, hey, maybe we could even be more than what they are.
00:18:08.872 –> 00:18:13.092
Roddy: It’s almost your belief puts the artificial cap on it.
00:18:13.092 –> 00:18:21.432
Roddy: So I guess let’s shift from your experience as a reseller, but it also ties in with, you’ve had experience leading an SMB organization earlier in career.
00:18:21.432 –> 00:18:27.712
Roddy: How has that influenced you as a leader inside of very large organizations that work with SMBs, right?
00:18:27.712 –> 00:18:37.272
Roddy: You’re not just a giant bank, working with other giant banks, you’re working with a lot of under 10 employee, under 20 employee organizations.
00:18:37.272 –> 00:18:41.432
Roddy: How’s that experience shaped what you do and how you behave as a leader?
00:18:41.432 –> 00:19:02.652
Fultz: Well, I think building upon seeing what the impacts were at the street level, seeing how merchants responded to some of those changes, having to speak to merchants on changes or things that were not awesome, and having to be the front person to absorb all of those colorful comments, as they gave feedback on being accountable.
00:19:02.652 –> 00:19:06.472
Fultz: Because ultimately, being a bar, you’re accountable.
00:19:06.472 –> 00:19:11.252
Fultz: Whether that’s legally accountable doesn’t matter to your merchant, to your customer, you’re accountable.
00:19:12.112 –> 00:19:13.692
Fultz: And that’s a tough spot to be in.
00:19:13.932 –> 00:19:17.952
Fultz: And so, that has always stayed with me.
00:19:17.952 –> 00:19:24.312
Fultz: To this day, and I think that it still shocks people, which kind of makes me wonder how others are approaching it at times.
00:19:24.312 –> 00:19:28.772
Fultz: But when I tell a bar or I tell a merchant, well, I’ll get on the phone with them, correct.
00:19:28.772 –> 00:19:29.352
Fultz: It’s not a problem.
00:19:30.232 –> 00:19:36.052
Fultz: You don’t have to carry this news or the, sorry, this fix isn’t going to be available until here, you thought it was there.
00:19:36.612 –> 00:19:38.472
Fultz: I will get on the phone and have that conversation.
00:19:38.472 –> 00:19:40.612
Fultz: They’re like, why would you do that?
00:19:40.612 –> 00:19:44.852
Fultz: Because I understand how much that hurts, and you shouldn’t feel alone in that.
00:19:44.852 –> 00:19:51.652
Fultz: I think it’s absolutely shaped a lot of how I approach things, even in a scaled organization.
00:19:51.652 –> 00:20:09.612
Fultz: In the time, I would say what I’ve built upon on that SMB space into the larger vendor space in my time at Global and Heartland, and now in PNC Linga, I’ve learned the art of scale, which is I don’t think as a SMB, that was a blind spot for me for sure.
00:20:09.612 –> 00:20:14.432
Fultz: We could do everything in a hero moment, we could go do some crazy stuff, but it’s scale.
00:20:14.492 –> 00:20:15.972
Fultz: Could you do it day after day?
00:20:16.272 –> 00:20:23.952
Fultz: Could anyone on your team do that, or did it require one of a few people in the organization to actually go make that thing happen?
00:20:23.952 –> 00:20:26.792
Fultz: Otherwise, it wouldn’t work.
00:20:26.792 –> 00:20:29.372
Fultz: I learned that, and those were hard lessons.
00:20:29.372 –> 00:20:44.112
Fultz: I think I approached in the early days, some of the stuff at those companies, and we approached it like an entrepreneur, like, oh yeah, we can go build this, stand it up, and we can have it ready in 48 hours, and there we go, and then it’s like, okay, what happens when 5,000 clients hit it?
00:20:44.112 –> 00:20:44.392
Fultz: Yeah.
00:20:44.392 –> 00:20:48.912
Fultz: Well, okay, that’s not going to work, and then having to go back and rebuild.
00:20:48.912 –> 00:21:01.192
Fultz: Understanding that there is a perspective that says to build something that’s scalable, sometimes you need to go a little slower, so you can go faster, which I know is a huge cliche we’ve all heard, but it really is true.
00:21:01.192 –> 00:21:03.412
Fultz: I think that we’re living that out in this current moment.
00:21:04.392 –> 00:21:16.932
Fultz: My desire to grow and to evangelize and share all the good things that we’re doing, like I want to go fast, but it’s actually better to be temperate in that, because if we went too fast, the experience I don’t think would be great.
00:21:16.932 –> 00:21:26.392
Fultz: I don’t think that we would be able to do that, like we’re getting there, we’re building those structures out, getting the team in place, and they’re hearing and seeing how this can work.
00:21:26.392 –> 00:21:38.452
Fultz: But this is a process, and I think taking some time to do that is something that I have learned in the larger vendor space, is that in that earlier of our days, it was the ready fire aim or however that goes.
00:21:38.452 –> 00:21:40.172
Roddy: Sure.
00:21:40.172 –> 00:21:42.932
Roddy: Like I said, the jack-in-the-box method, there’s also the hide-and-go-seek method.
00:21:42.932 –> 00:21:44.852
Roddy: Ready or not, here we come.
00:21:44.852 –> 00:21:49.612
Roddy: We’re going to roll this out because we have the idea and we’re pressing it that way.
00:21:49.612 –> 00:21:50.952
Roddy: But people are under that pressure.
00:21:50.952 –> 00:21:52.672
Roddy: People want to see something happen.
00:21:52.672 –> 00:22:04.772
Roddy: So if you have two people building a house side by side, in the first month, if one just starts building on the sand, they’re going to look like they’re making a lot of progress, and the person next to them might be digging down and building a foundation.
00:22:04.772 –> 00:22:08.032
Roddy: But the one dig in the foundation is going to last longer.
00:22:08.032 –> 00:22:17.412
Roddy: It seems like that’s a hybrid understanding you’ve had from both working with an SMB that understands the agility, but then also these larger companies to say, oh, that’s what it takes to scale.
00:22:17.412 –> 00:22:18.652
Roddy: Am I understanding that correctly?
00:22:18.652 –> 00:22:21.572
Roddy: That blends your two experiences together.
00:22:21.572 –> 00:22:23.632
Fultz: Yeah, I think you said it well.
00:22:24.132 –> 00:22:28.512
Fultz: That was a question that I proposed to PNC.
00:22:28.752 –> 00:22:31.372
Fultz: And I’m like, hey, what does this look like in a quarter?
00:22:31.372 –> 00:22:37.212
Fultz: And they actually shocked me when they said, look, we’re a 160-year-old institution.
00:22:37.212 –> 00:22:42.132
Fultz: We think in 10-year increments, don’t worry about the quarters.
00:22:42.132 –> 00:22:50.892
Fultz: Build something that has, that we can stand behind, has reputational value that 10 years from now, we look back and say, these were the great decisions that we made that got us here.
00:22:50.892 –> 00:22:55.072
Fultz: That is a very different world to live in compared to where I’ve been lately.
00:22:55.512 –> 00:22:57.432
Roddy: Yes.
00:22:57.432 –> 00:22:58.012
Roddy: Thank you for that.
00:22:58.252 –> 00:22:59.072
Roddy: I appreciate it.
00:22:59.072 –> 00:23:00.892
Roddy: Let’s dive into your background a little bit.
00:23:01.552 –> 00:23:07.272
Roddy: I’m hoping you could talk about specific experiences from early in your career that really shaped you as a leader.
00:23:07.272 –> 00:23:15.892
Roddy: Can you tell us one story that’s really stuck with you and shaped how you think, how you behave today as a leader?
00:23:15.892 –> 00:23:16.272
Fultz: Yeah.
00:23:16.432 –> 00:23:34.712
Fultz: I think that there’s, I think if we talk about the one story, the seminal story in my career arc, I think has to go to, I mean, there is a gentleman, famous businessman Bob Ufford, he runs the Halftime Institute, really great leader, has built leadership workshops, I’ve read a lot of his work.
00:23:34.712 –> 00:23:37.232
Fultz: Good stuff if you want to check that out.
00:23:37.232 –> 00:23:38.752
Roddy: Say his name again, Bob?
00:23:38.752 –> 00:23:40.112
Fultz: Bob Ufford.
00:23:40.112 –> 00:23:54.892
Fultz: He’s passed away now, but his organization still is there, and he has this concept called Halftime, which is in our career, we reached this halftime stage, and the way that we played the second half doesn’t have to look like the first half, and actually probably shouldn’t.
00:23:54.892 –> 00:24:08.012
Fultz: We’ve learned a lot, we understand more, so we can approach the second half of our career in quite different perspective with intentionality versus, well, we’re just going to go out and see what happens during the first half and maybe we’ll win, and we’ll be ahead before we go to halftime.
00:24:09.572 –> 00:24:14.572
Fultz: But looking at the second half is more driven with intentionality, and I think I’ve touched a little bit about that.
00:24:14.572 –> 00:24:26.992
Fultz: That’s why I was very specific when I had my list of things back to PNC, like, yeah, my second half, yeah, I don’t want to do exactly what I did in the first half because, yeah, it was fun, but I got, what’s how they say that, I already got the T-shirt, I’m good.
00:24:27.912 –> 00:24:29.572
Fultz: I’ll give you a second.
00:24:30.912 –> 00:24:40.412
Fultz: So there was that intentionality, and so that halftime for me, if we look at that moment where things changed, was a bit different for me than I think a lot of folks.
00:24:40.412 –> 00:24:45.632
Fultz: I think for many people, at least from what I see, it’s like an evolution.
00:24:45.632 –> 00:24:54.552
Fultz: There isn’t a single point in time where you can go, that’s when a light bulb went off, and I kicked it into a second gear.
00:24:55.972 –> 00:25:06.492
Fultz: But it was that way for me, and it came down to a point about four and a half years ago now, and I was ripping and roaring.
00:25:06.492 –> 00:25:13.732
Fultz: It wasn’t enough time in a day for all the energy that I have, and we were just moving and burning and shaking, and it was fun.
00:25:13.732 –> 00:25:25.512
Fultz: I was enjoying it, and there was an auto accident, and in a literally snap of a finger, life just stopped.
00:25:25.512 –> 00:25:38.612
Fultz: And all of the ways that I had approached things, all the attitudes that I had accumulated for good or bad, all of that became challenged in, I would say, a hyper-compressed time frame of days.
00:25:38.612 –> 00:25:45.972
Fultz: And into the details, you know, that change was amazing.
00:25:45.972 –> 00:25:52.832
Fultz: And I am thankful for it, because I don’t know how it could have happened without something like that.
00:25:52.832 –> 00:25:54.292
Fultz: So some specifics.
00:25:54.292 –> 00:25:55.412
Roddy: Yeah.
00:25:55.412 –> 00:26:01.072
Fultz: Like I said, I’ve always been, you know, no mountain too high, nothing too grand.
00:26:01.072 –> 00:26:06.672
Fultz: Let’s go do, you know, let’s go conquer two major things at the same time, like just never enough.
00:26:09.972 –> 00:26:16.712
Fultz: And I learned in a split second that it’s okay to ask for help, because I had never accepted help.
00:26:16.712 –> 00:26:20.652
Fultz: People always come along and they give their, hey, how do you hand with this?
00:26:20.652 –> 00:26:22.612
Fultz: You know, could you, no, no, we’re good, we’re good.
00:26:22.612 –> 00:26:23.252
Fultz: Thanks so much.
00:26:23.452 –> 00:26:26.512
Fultz: You know, obligatory thanks, but no thanks.
00:26:26.512 –> 00:26:32.412
Fultz: And I realized those types of responses were extremely selfish.
00:26:34.652 –> 00:26:42.832
Fultz: When someone offers to help, whether you need it or not, when you deny that, you deny them joy.
00:26:42.832 –> 00:26:49.612
Fultz: You deny them the good things that come out of that, that helping hand.
00:26:49.612 –> 00:26:54.712
Fultz: It’s not as much as what they’re helping you with, it’s what you’re allowing them to help in.
00:26:54.712 –> 00:27:02.012
Fultz: And I did not understand that until that moment where I had to ask for help for the most basic of things and realized it wasn’t a sign of weakness.
00:27:02.352 –> 00:27:04.812
Fultz: It was just a sign of honesty.
00:27:04.812 –> 00:27:09.952
Fultz: And it has changed that dramatically.
00:27:09.952 –> 00:27:16.392
Fultz: The other element that I would say is, I’ve always been very, even at a young age, very empathetic to others.
00:27:16.392 –> 00:27:18.012
Fultz: I could understand people’s perspectives.
00:27:18.012 –> 00:27:20.172
Fultz: I think this is why I’ve been pretty successful in business.
00:27:20.172 –> 00:27:25.652
Fultz: I can quickly put myself in that person’s shoes and try to, some people call it the sales chameleon.
00:27:25.652 –> 00:27:26.792
Fultz: I think that’s a little crass.
00:27:26.792 –> 00:27:29.232
Fultz: I actually think there’s really good things in that.
00:27:29.232 –> 00:27:31.672
Fultz: Like I can feel what you feel, I can see what you see.
00:27:31.832 –> 00:27:36.492
Fultz: These are good things to interact, especially in a community like ours.
00:27:40.812 –> 00:27:44.232
Fultz: But I realized that that was surface level.
00:27:45.792 –> 00:27:53.132
Fultz: A lot of times folks would want to engage in a deeper connection, and I would just be so go, go, go.
00:27:53.132 –> 00:27:54.312
Fultz: We got missions to go.
00:27:54.312 –> 00:27:55.092
Fultz: Thanks so much.
00:27:55.152 –> 00:27:56.232
Fultz: Yep, you stay here.
00:27:56.232 –> 00:27:58.112
Fultz: We’re going on to the next town.
00:27:58.112 –> 00:28:00.052
Fultz: We’re that sort of mentality.
00:28:00.052 –> 00:28:07.672
Fultz: And then in that moment, just because of some of the circumstances at the time, I couldn’t leave when someone wanted to talk.
00:28:07.672 –> 00:28:09.712
Fultz: And you just had to slow your mind down.
00:28:09.892 –> 00:28:18.872
Fultz: And what I realized very quickly is, there’s some really good human interaction that I have been glossing over.
00:28:20.032 –> 00:28:23.012
Fultz: I realized that everyone has stories that are valuable.
00:28:23.012 –> 00:28:28.972
Fultz: Even sometimes the way some people tell them, you may be like, oh, all right, skipping, skipping, skipping.
00:28:30.032 –> 00:28:33.492
Fultz: But actually for them to go through that, that’s a real human connection.
00:28:33.492 –> 00:28:36.652
Fultz: And I have been missing those genuine connections.
00:28:36.652 –> 00:28:47.272
Fultz: And I will now, things I’ve learned and I guess I don’t think I would have learned it if it was something like very big that snapped it into places.
00:28:47.272 –> 00:29:06.372
Fultz: I will stop and listen to anyone for any period of time and let them get through whatever they want to get through and let them feel heard and actually take that in and do something with it, whether it’s a word of encouragement, whether it’s connecting them with some resource that’s better adept to help them, whether it’s changing an idea or thought.
00:29:06.732 –> 00:29:17.672
Fultz: That has been amazingly beneficial in leading up to where I am now, what I’m doing in the business and how I have to lead in this moment.
00:29:17.672 –> 00:29:26.192
Fultz: But that moment, that incident, it’s just that thing that happened that I don’t really look at as an accident because it was highly beneficial.
00:29:27.332 –> 00:29:29.592
Fultz: That changed a lot.
00:29:29.592 –> 00:29:38.732
Fultz: While I would wish that on no one, I’m actually thankful that it happened because I do believe I lead better and I’m able to help people in a more complete way.
00:29:38.732 –> 00:29:39.412
Roddy: Yeah.
00:29:39.412 –> 00:29:41.752
Roddy: I really appreciate you sharing that.
00:29:41.752 –> 00:29:55.732
Roddy: It sounds like your advice for folks is, before something externally slows you down in ways that you didn’t want to be slowed down, slow down other things like change the scenery to really benefit those other folks and listen to them.
00:29:55.732 –> 00:29:59.292
Roddy: I guess, am I understanding that’s what you’re saying?
00:29:59.892 –> 00:30:00.232
Fultz: Yeah.
00:30:00.512 –> 00:30:01.412
Fultz: I totally agree.
00:30:01.852 –> 00:30:03.832
Fultz: It takes intentional effort.
00:30:03.832 –> 00:30:15.312
Fultz: For a lot of us that are wired to go, and many of my colleagues and such in the industry are, it’s a beautiful thing to have that drive, but there is a bigger life happening around us.
00:30:15.312 –> 00:30:17.232
Fultz: I think it’s good to put that in perspective.
00:30:17.232 –> 00:30:18.252
Roddy: Yeah.
00:30:18.392 –> 00:30:21.292
Roddy: I’ll just say, personally, it’s interesting to bring up that story right now.
00:30:21.792 –> 00:30:28.732
Roddy: For the folks who are listening and watching, we’re recording this the day after the National Retail Federation Show, NRF.
00:30:28.892 –> 00:30:34.592
Roddy: So my drink, if anybody’s watching, there is a mountain doing this because it’s like three really super long and intense days.
00:30:34.592 –> 00:30:41.092
Roddy: But what we had done in the past as an organization was because we wanted to, to your point, go, go, go, add new members, add new members.
00:30:41.092 –> 00:30:46.292
Roddy: I always had a list of people to prospect there and then some members to spend time with.
00:30:46.292 –> 00:30:49.772
Roddy: But then we just learned like I’d be talking to a member, they’d want to spend more time.
00:30:49.772 –> 00:30:56.172
Roddy: I’d want to spend more time, but I’m like, I got this list where I got to get to, but they didn’t care about the list I had to get to.
00:30:56.172 –> 00:31:01.892
Roddy: We changed it this year that John Gregor, who’s our Director of Business Development, he did all prospecting.
00:31:01.892 –> 00:31:07.592
Roddy: Chris Arnold, our Director of Member Services, he did a ton of member engagement and just a little bit of prospecting.
00:31:07.592 –> 00:31:10.932
Roddy: All I did, all I had on my list were members.
00:31:11.492 –> 00:31:16.692
Roddy: Boy, was it great to be able to spend time in somebody’s booth and then say, let me introduce you to show and so on.
00:31:16.692 –> 00:31:18.672
Roddy: We go, good, that’d be great.
00:31:18.672 –> 00:31:20.212
Roddy: This is what I am here for.
00:31:20.332 –> 00:31:26.572
Roddy: That’s kind of what it sounds like you’re saying is make intentional time to invest with people.
00:31:26.572 –> 00:31:29.952
Roddy: It means you’re only going to spend time with four people instead of 14.
00:31:29.952 –> 00:31:33.832
Roddy: That’s going to be better for those four and you can get to the other 10 later.
00:31:33.832 –> 00:31:46.452
Roddy: If I’m understanding Craig, from a leadership standpoint, you cannot be rushing through the process of genuinely caring about people, or else it is just empathetic and it’s just surface level empathy, and it’s going to break down over time.
00:31:47.192 –> 00:32:03.632
Fultz: Yeah, I think you said that well, and how that looks at a practical level is if you’re involved in a meeting, a one-on-one, you’re discussing and there’s substance that’s happening, and don’t be tallying bound by the meeting because time’s up, I got to roll to the next one.
00:32:03.632 –> 00:32:06.212
Fultz: It’s like, send a note to the next one.
00:32:06.212 –> 00:32:07.192
Fultz: I’m going to be five minutes late.
00:32:07.192 –> 00:32:08.492
Fultz: I’m in a really great conversation.
00:32:08.492 –> 00:32:10.032
Fultz: I need to finish out.
00:32:10.032 –> 00:32:16.172
Fultz: I mean, you think about that, what you’re teeing up for the next person is, what was so great about that one and how can I have that conversation?
00:32:16.932 –> 00:32:18.632
Fultz: It perpetuates itself in value.
00:32:21.752 –> 00:32:24.112
Fultz: It’s definitely been a positive spot.
00:32:24.972 –> 00:32:30.632
Fultz: I’m not just talking about in the business space, even with my own kids, just at a personal level.
00:32:30.632 –> 00:32:40.272
Fultz: When they’re going through their day, it’s like actually, okay, I’m actually going to turn the screen off, and I’m going to actually look at you and interact with you, because right now, hey, you want to talk about your day.
00:32:40.832 –> 00:32:41.732
Fultz: That’s important.
00:32:42.332 –> 00:32:44.152
Fultz: I’ve seen great changes even in my own kids.
00:32:44.272 –> 00:32:46.272
Fultz: I’ve seen them respond to that.
00:32:46.272 –> 00:32:47.272
Roddy: Yeah.
00:32:47.272 –> 00:32:47.952
Roddy: Very well said.
00:32:47.952 –> 00:32:48.192
Roddy: All right.
00:32:48.192 –> 00:32:53.672
Roddy: We’re going to pause here to let our listeners and viewers know about the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:32:53.672 –> 00:33:02.832
Roddy: The RSPA is North America’s largest community of retail technology, VARs, software providers, vendors, and distributors in the retail restaurant and grocery verticals.
00:33:02.832 –> 00:33:08.572
Roddy: To accelerate your success through an RSPA membership, email membership at gorspa.org.
00:33:08.572 –> 00:33:11.512
Roddy: To tie into what Bill and I are saying, like it is genuinely a community.
00:33:11.592 –> 00:33:16.052
Roddy: Like at NRF, there’s 35,000 people there and you don’t know a lot of them.
00:33:16.052 –> 00:33:19.352
Roddy: But the RSPA folks, seeing other RSPA folks, it was like, great.
00:33:19.352 –> 00:33:22.032
Roddy: Hey, it’s like to be able to see a friend as well.
00:33:22.032 –> 00:33:28.432
Roddy: Also, we want to thank these channel focused companies who support the RSPA and make this podcast and video series possible.
00:33:28.432 –> 00:33:35.112
Roddy: Our gold sponsors are Bluestar, CoCard, Epson, Global Payments, OrderCounter, and ScanSource.
00:33:35.112 –> 00:33:43.332
Roddy: Then finally, make sure you save the date for RetailNOW 2026, the Retail IT channel’s number one trade show, Education Conference and Networking event.
00:33:43.332 –> 00:33:49.472
Roddy: This year’s event is set for July 26-28 at the new Caesars Forum Conference Center in Las Vegas.
00:33:49.472 –> 00:33:51.832
Roddy: For more information, visit gorspa.org/retailnow.
00:33:54.852 –> 00:33:58.372
Roddy: RetailNOW is where the industry meets.
00:33:58.372 –> 00:33:58.812
Roddy: All righty.
00:33:58.812 –> 00:34:04.472
Roddy: So my next question for you, Bill, we’ve got, it looks like about 15 minutes left that I want to dive in.
00:34:04.472 –> 00:34:11.912
Roddy: Can you tell us about, you’ve been really open, can you tell us about a mistake that you made as a leader and what you learned from it?
00:34:11.912 –> 00:34:18.592
Roddy: Could be a recent mistake, could be a long time ago, could be a colossal disaster, could be just when you fell short of your standards.
00:34:18.592 –> 00:34:21.612
Roddy: You want to share a mistake that you made?
00:34:21.612 –> 00:34:21.892
Fultz: Yeah.
00:34:21.892 –> 00:34:46.512
Fultz: I think that a mistake that I have made numerous times is realizing that when I have feedback or criticisms to share in reality, with either a peer or a downstream colleague, realizing that just because I want to share it does not mean it’s always the optimal time for them to hear it.
00:34:46.512 –> 00:34:49.932
Fultz: I can tell you some disastrous examples.
00:34:49.932 –> 00:34:50.752
Roddy: Go on, please.
00:34:51.012 –> 00:34:52.612
Roddy: He said we got 15 minutes left.
00:34:52.612 –> 00:34:52.932
Fultz: Yeah.
00:34:54.152 –> 00:35:04.432
Fultz: A great example is we’re going through our rebranding efforts just recently, and the team is sharing multiple iterations of things, some of them not so great, awesome.
00:35:04.432 –> 00:35:14.912
Fultz: And I had just come from another meeting, I was running from one to the other, and the first thing they showed me was just awful.
00:35:14.912 –> 00:35:21.632
Fultz: And my feedback was pretty direct and quick, and it was, you know, this is, well, what are you thinking?
00:35:21.632 –> 00:35:24.392
Fultz: Like, this isn’t anything that’s going to work.
00:35:24.392 –> 00:35:25.752
Fultz: These are the reasons why.
00:35:25.752 –> 00:35:27.532
Fultz: Do you even understand what you do?
00:35:27.532 –> 00:35:34.852
Fultz: And, you know, as those, even those final words had like slipped out off the tongue, I realized why all of that may be accurate.
00:35:34.852 –> 00:35:53.712
Fultz: That was not the way to share that type of feedback, because they’re very passionate and they’re involved, and they’re trying to create great things, and it’s not that they wouldn’t have changed or modified them, but to come in there, that was like, it was like a sledge hammer where a smaller hammer would have probably been much more effective.
00:35:53.712 –> 00:36:05.712
Fultz: So I would say, numerous times in the past, coming in with that, everybody loves the term radical candor, and radical candor doesn’t give you the excuse to be a jerk.
00:36:05.712 –> 00:36:05.912
Roddy: Yeah.
00:36:06.012 –> 00:36:06.752
Roddy: Okay.
00:36:06.752 –> 00:36:28.052
Fultz: I think that that’s a lesson that I continually try to refine, because I do love giving quick feedback, and both for the positive and the negative, but there’s a way to do that and do it with grace, and that’s something that even to this day, I still struggle with, even with all the learnings and all the foibles, you still have to work on that one personally.
00:36:28.052 –> 00:36:28.552
Roddy: Got it.
00:36:28.552 –> 00:36:28.952
Roddy: Interesting.
00:36:29.612 –> 00:36:33.972
Roddy: I worked for a couple brothers, and they told me about the tempers that they used to have.
00:36:33.972 –> 00:36:38.672
Roddy: They would ask questions, they would say things like, that’s one way of looking at it, let’s look at another one.
00:36:38.672 –> 00:36:51.272
Roddy: That was a very nice way to do it, and they talked about before this shows how back in time, they would do tape reviews for sales calls, they would be driving down the street with a sales rep, traveling to something, and if we get so angry, they would pop the tape out, crack it in half and throw it out the window.
00:36:51.272 –> 00:36:54.972
Roddy: They are like, probably not very good from a character.
00:36:54.972 –> 00:36:57.512
Roddy: People are not going to receive that feedback from me well.
00:36:57.512 –> 00:36:59.752
Roddy: So, how do you control that?
00:36:59.752 –> 00:37:07.552
Roddy: Like how do you make sure, because in the moment, it is easier to faster just to say like, oh, next, show me another one.
00:37:07.852 –> 00:37:14.492
Roddy: How do you get the right outcomes for moving the business forward at an appropriate pace, but also respecting how the other person feels?
00:37:14.552 –> 00:37:16.952
Roddy: How do you remind yourself to stay within the guidelines?
00:37:16.952 –> 00:37:19.212
Fultz: Yeah, I have two very practical things that I do.
00:37:19.212 –> 00:37:25.072
Fultz: One is, if you see me writing, if we’re ever in a meeting and I’m writing, that’s because I’m censoring myself.
00:37:25.592 –> 00:37:40.112
Fultz: I’m writing the thing down that I probably shouldn’t say, and I’m looking at it, and that couple extra seconds allows me to reframe it, and generally what is written down is not what gets said or sometimes I let them go for a few more minutes before I call it back to the center.
00:37:42.372 –> 00:37:54.372
Fultz: That is a technique that I use, whether in virtual meetings or in person, so I probably shouldn’t have told my leadership team that they now know when I’m writing to be like, okay, stop talking.
00:37:55.732 –> 00:38:05.192
Roddy: Yeah, but that writing is better than pouncing on somebody and cutting them off mid-sense, then they just start walking into a meeting and go, what do you want me to do?
00:38:05.192 –> 00:38:08.272
Roddy: Because they know whatever they explain is going to get shot down.
00:38:10.012 –> 00:38:12.752
Roddy: So you’ve touched on your leadership style.
00:38:12.752 –> 00:38:14.012
Roddy: How would you describe it?
00:38:14.952 –> 00:38:22.392
Roddy: Can you put that into a few words and then what are some actions you take when you engage with your teams or reinforce the approach that you’re seeking?
00:38:23.892 –> 00:38:31.652
Fultz: Yeah, not to be overly cliche with it, but it’s treat others how you want to be treated at its core.
00:38:31.752 –> 00:38:39.192
Fultz: It doesn’t mean if that’s an executive within the business or it’s an independent contributor.
00:38:39.192 –> 00:38:46.632
Fultz: If you approach things from that perspective, it’s going to put it at least, you’re going to be in the right ballpark to start.
00:38:46.792 –> 00:38:49.812
Fultz: And I’ve been asked this question a lot, what’s your leadership style?
00:38:49.812 –> 00:38:55.112
Fultz: I’ve been through a number of courses, I’m sure we all have, and as you try to figure out the nuance there.
00:38:55.212 –> 00:39:03.792
Fultz: But I don’t know that any of them resonate, and with me, like, oh, servant leader or different versions.
00:39:03.912 –> 00:39:05.712
Fultz: And I think that there’s a couple of reasons for that.
00:39:05.712 –> 00:39:08.152
Fultz: One is that high degree of empathy that I mentioned earlier.
00:39:08.352 –> 00:39:14.872
Fultz: I just have that sort of an innate, one of the things I’ve been blessed with, so that gives me perspective that.
00:39:14.872 –> 00:39:23.292
Fultz: The other part is, I’ve had a really blessed opportunity to do almost every function in this industry at multiple levels.
00:39:23.592 –> 00:39:33.072
Fultz: As a senior executive down to independent contributor across even like development and product and sales support, like I’ve done all of those things.
00:39:33.072 –> 00:39:41.252
Fultz: And so, my leadership style that I’ve often point out, it’s adaptive and it’s somewhat situational.
00:39:41.252 –> 00:39:44.132
Fultz: And that’s not to mean that it’s inconsistent.
00:39:44.132 –> 00:39:50.152
Fultz: But you have to realize that a single leadership style is not effective at scale.
00:39:50.952 –> 00:39:57.072
Fultz: If you only have one way of addressing things in a certain way, as great as it is, it’s not going to fit every situation.
00:39:57.072 –> 00:39:58.352
Fultz: And here’s why.
00:39:58.352 –> 00:40:00.952
Fultz: Everyone that you’re working with is different.
00:40:00.952 –> 00:40:01.592
Roddy: Yeah.
00:40:01.592 –> 00:40:07.792
Fultz: Everyone responds differently to different interactions, different styles, different language, different word, different actions.
00:40:07.792 –> 00:40:11.812
Fultz: Some prefer an email in advance before you get there.
00:40:11.812 –> 00:40:13.692
Fultz: They want a lot of detail before they get there.
00:40:13.692 –> 00:40:16.652
Fultz: That’s one of the things that we did with my team when I first got there.
00:40:17.672 –> 00:40:24.072
Fultz: We actually brought in an outside leader who I highly respect, and we went through each other’s Enneagram types.
00:40:24.072 –> 00:40:32.312
Fultz: Whether you believe in Enneagram or not, it’s not really the point, but it gave us a basis for understanding, hey, when I’m working with so-and-so, they need more detail before they show up.
00:40:32.312 –> 00:40:34.872
Fultz: They want to know the gritty.
00:40:34.872 –> 00:40:40.292
Fultz: There’s others, they want to be emotionally enthusiastic about whatever you’re going to give them.
00:40:40.292 –> 00:40:42.532
Fultz: They want to feel the passion, they’re more innate.
00:40:42.532 –> 00:40:44.532
Fultz: The others are going to be more pragmatic.
00:40:45.372 –> 00:40:47.912
Fultz: They want to know why we did this versus something else.
00:40:48.532 –> 00:40:55.972
Fultz: We did that all as a group effort, just to understand how to work with each other, how to lead each other and be led by each other.
00:40:57.672 –> 00:41:03.332
Fultz: Even within that small group of seven or eight folks, we had seven or eight different types.
00:41:03.332 –> 00:41:06.932
Fultz: Now, expand that out to now a 300-person organization.
00:41:06.932 –> 00:41:11.452
Fultz: There’s all sorts of wonderful variations and combinations of that.
00:41:12.212 –> 00:41:16.612
Fultz: That flexible style leadership is really important.
00:41:16.612 –> 00:41:19.512
Fultz: This is how it looks in a practical way.
00:41:19.512 –> 00:41:22.992
Fultz: What we did, we had a number of great announcements last week.
00:41:22.992 –> 00:41:31.872
Fultz: It’s how we’re doing back-to-back interviews, and webinars, and all sorts of things to get the word out.
00:41:31.872 –> 00:41:39.732
Fultz: All of those had a common core, but because the audience are different, some are partners, some were internal colleagues, some were bank colleagues.
00:41:40.372 –> 00:41:43.932
Fultz: You modify that so it resonates with each one of those audiences.
00:41:43.932 –> 00:41:46.052
Fultz: The core was the same, the message was the same.
00:41:46.052 –> 00:41:51.092
Fultz: There was consistency, but it was given a way to hopefully reach and connect with them at real levels.
00:41:51.292 –> 00:41:53.312
Fultz: That’s why I say you have to be adaptive.
00:41:53.312 –> 00:42:06.292
Fultz: When you get to this stage, I think you have to be adaptive because the environment and the people that you’re going to interact with are an amazing variety, and it requires you to be flexible.
00:42:06.292 –> 00:42:16.852
Roddy: Yeah, and it sounds like you’ve got to meet them where they are, and to your point of there’s some times where folks are long talkers, other folks you’ve really got to ask them tons of questions to pull it out of them.
00:42:16.852 –> 00:42:19.012
Roddy: Somebody you might say, hey, how are you feeling?
00:42:19.012 –> 00:42:19.892
Roddy: They’ll go on forever.
00:42:19.892 –> 00:42:20.792
Roddy: Someone else, how are you feeling?
00:42:20.792 –> 00:42:22.192
Roddy: They’ll be like, good.
00:42:22.192 –> 00:42:23.352
Roddy: You’re like, I don’t think they’re good.
00:42:23.572 –> 00:42:25.552
Roddy: You need to drill in.
00:42:25.552 –> 00:42:26.392
Roddy: That’s really interesting.
00:42:27.152 –> 00:42:34.092
Roddy: It’s a combination of empathy, like genuinely caring about them, but being flexible to meet them where they are, not, hey, this is how I am.
00:42:34.092 –> 00:42:39.692
Roddy: I’m a fast-talking, collaborative kind of guy, so we’re going to be fast-talking and collaborative on everything.
00:42:39.692 –> 00:42:40.172
Roddy: Yeah.
00:42:40.432 –> 00:42:47.012
Fultz: I show up in environments, and I’ve done that even here, where I would say I do battlefield leadership, which is like, all right, everybody get behind me.
00:42:47.012 –> 00:42:50.772
Fultz: I’m going to go first, and it’s going to be rocky, but we’ve got to move.
00:42:50.772 –> 00:42:52.412
Fultz: Staying here is not an option.
00:42:52.412 –> 00:42:52.792
Roddy: Yeah.
00:42:52.792 –> 00:42:54.232
Fultz: But you can’t live in that.
00:42:54.232 –> 00:43:02.332
Fultz: You can’t, but sometimes to get people out of a bad situation, you’ve got to say, we’ll check our feelings in a moment.
00:43:02.332 –> 00:43:05.052
Fultz: We’ve just got to get out of here because this is not a good place to be.
00:43:05.772 –> 00:43:07.232
Roddy: Yeah, and you saying that reminds me.
00:43:07.232 –> 00:43:10.172
Roddy: So folks work remotely, that’s easy to do one-on-one.
00:43:10.172 –> 00:43:25.272
Roddy: But if you’re working in an office, that’s why it’s important to pull somebody off to the side or pull them into a room because the way that you work with somebody, if somebody overhears that, they might be like, whoa, what a jerk or what a softie because they have a different personality type while you’re catering to that person.
00:43:25.572 –> 00:43:30.532
Roddy: Like you said, you don’t change the rules of the principles, but it’s the delivery and a lot of the tactics around it.
00:43:30.532 –> 00:43:32.692
Roddy: So very interesting point.
00:43:32.692 –> 00:43:33.132
Roddy: Flexible.
00:43:33.832 –> 00:43:34.692
Roddy: So only a few minutes left.
00:43:34.692 –> 00:43:36.332
Roddy: I got a couple more questions for you.
00:43:36.332 –> 00:43:42.252
Roddy: I’m curious, who are some leaders that you look up to as mentors and who’ve helped you shape your leadership approach?
00:43:42.252 –> 00:43:44.912
Roddy: And specifically, like if you want to name names, that’d be great.
00:43:44.912 –> 00:43:46.052
Roddy: But also, what did they do?
00:43:46.052 –> 00:43:50.532
Roddy: What did they say that’s had a lasting impact on you years later?
00:43:50.572 –> 00:43:59.752
Fultz: Yeah, I had a remarkable trio in growing up that set the foundations for everything that would happen.
00:43:59.752 –> 00:44:04.792
Fultz: And they were my father and my grandfathers.
00:44:04.792 –> 00:44:09.412
Fultz: And although, yes, all family, they couldn’t be any more different.
00:44:09.412 –> 00:44:17.592
Fultz: My dad, highly scientific, three doctorates, taught at universities, business, had a very unique perspective.
00:44:17.932 –> 00:44:25.672
Fultz: My one grandfather, highly successful, small businessman, I learned a ton of what it looked like to own your own company.
00:44:25.672 –> 00:44:27.792
Fultz: And he only graduated the sixth grade.
00:44:27.792 –> 00:44:28.732
Fultz: Okay.
00:44:28.732 –> 00:44:33.852
Fultz: To another grandfather who was a railroad worker and just showed up every night to do his job.
00:44:33.852 –> 00:44:40.352
Fultz: And so those perspectives, I didn’t understand at the time, but they all had value.
00:44:41.512 –> 00:44:53.772
Fultz: And it helped shaped me into looking at, if you can’t judge a person by what you think, like you look at, oh, if you look at someone, oh, he hasn’t graduated the sixth grade, he probably worked for minimum wage most of his life.
00:44:53.772 –> 00:44:59.652
Fultz: And like he was one of the most wealthiest persons I’ve ever known, and it had nothing to do with his education.
00:45:00.732 –> 00:45:08.812
Fultz: And that set the stage for me to come into situations and just sort of be open minded with folks, and not to have that sort of prejudgment.
00:45:08.812 –> 00:45:17.892
Fultz: And I think that I know that that set the stage for me to work with other leaders and really just be open.
00:45:17.892 –> 00:45:19.492
Fultz: And I’ve had various leaders.
00:45:19.492 –> 00:45:23.172
Fultz: Some are awesome, some I learned a ton from, but I don’t really like.
00:45:24.752 –> 00:45:31.932
Fultz: That wasn’t the prerequisite of getting value, working good together, many of them I did, thank goodness.
00:45:31.932 –> 00:45:35.632
Fultz: But I learned a lot and all of them added something to the mix.
00:45:35.632 –> 00:45:42.292
Fultz: And I think that that’s something as you grow in leadership is really enjoying seeing perspective.
00:45:42.372 –> 00:45:45.152
Fultz: It doesn’t necessarily mean that that becomes your perspectives.
00:45:45.332 –> 00:45:53.132
Fultz: Some elements that make sense and others it’s like, I see where that is great and I could apply it this way, probably a little better in my circumstance.
00:45:53.132 –> 00:45:54.872
Fultz: And that’s that flexibility again.
00:45:55.052 –> 00:46:06.392
Fultz: It’s realizing that just because someone may use more four-letter words than I care for in their leadership style, doesn’t mean there’s not something to hear or gain from them and sort of approaching that openly.
00:46:06.392 –> 00:46:13.072
Fultz: And I think that’s why I think over the years with the leaders I’ve had great relationships with, even the ones I don’t love to share a drink with after work.
00:46:13.072 –> 00:46:18.352
Fultz: But we’ve had really good understandings in communication.
00:46:18.352 –> 00:46:24.052
Fultz: And I’ve been thankful to have many of them in a lot of different varieties over the years.
00:46:24.052 –> 00:46:25.212
Fultz: It’s been very helpful.
00:46:25.212 –> 00:46:30.572
Roddy: And part of what it sounds like you’re saying is when somebody says something, that’s like, boy, that does not ring right with me.
00:46:30.572 –> 00:46:35.392
Roddy: Instead of just saying, that makes no sense whatsoever, you say to them, why do you say that?
00:46:35.392 –> 00:46:36.692
Roddy: Like, give me your perspective.
00:46:36.692 –> 00:46:42.632
Roddy: And then you’re going to be like, oh, now I at least see where they’re coming from as opposed to that guy’s a jerk, right?
00:46:42.632 –> 00:46:44.752
Roddy: And they’re like, they don’t know what they’re talking about.
00:46:44.752 –> 00:46:46.352
Fultz: Yeah, I agree.
00:46:46.352 –> 00:46:48.352
Roddy: We’ve only got a couple of minutes left and we’ve covered a bunch.
00:46:48.352 –> 00:46:51.552
Roddy: What would you say be your final advice for our audience?
00:46:51.552 –> 00:46:56.372
Roddy: Like, let’s say you have a three-minute rideshare with a VAR or ISV leader.
00:46:56.372 –> 00:47:01.812
Roddy: What advice would you give them, especially if they’re early on in their leadership and business career?
00:47:02.912 –> 00:47:03.792
Fultz: I’m going to say two things.
00:47:03.792 –> 00:47:08.412
Fultz: They’re going to feel like they’re opposed, but they’re actually together.
00:47:08.592 –> 00:47:10.732
Fultz: So just hear the thought out.
00:47:10.732 –> 00:47:14.172
Fultz: So at its core, don’t wait to move.
00:47:15.312 –> 00:47:18.392
Fultz: If you’re waiting for perfect, it’s likely never going to come around.
00:47:18.392 –> 00:47:22.112
Fultz: Don’t let that be the thing that prevents you from moving.
00:47:22.112 –> 00:47:28.232
Fultz: In that same thread, don’t be so anxious to jump out of something just because it’s not working quickly.
00:47:28.232 –> 00:47:43.052
Fultz: So I know those things feel like they’re different, but I could say many of the things that I eventually did in the course of my career, I wish I would have moved sooner on them because eventually the outcome would have probably been a little better and a little faster.
00:47:43.052 –> 00:47:44.312
Fultz: Imperfect never arrived.
00:47:44.312 –> 00:47:59.212
Fultz: There was always some challenge, there was always some competitor, there was always some new thing to challenge and create opportunity to improve, but not giving up the moment you hit resistance.
00:47:59.212 –> 00:48:01.672
Fultz: That’s a really delicate thing to do.
00:48:01.672 –> 00:48:14.832
Fultz: So the last piece of that would say, and keep lots of people around you, who can help give you guidance when it’s time to jump and when it’s time to stay, because sometimes you’re so close to it, it’s hard to be objective.
00:48:15.872 –> 00:48:22.672
Fultz: I have found it very valuable to ask others around me in that moment, even people who aren’t even connected to the thing that I’m involved in.
00:48:22.672 –> 00:48:33.332
Fultz: Whether it’s a family member, to the, hey, look at this situation, here’s what I’m faced with, and they’re like, it’s been very valuable in understanding that opportunity, but don’t wait.
00:48:33.672 –> 00:48:35.872
Fultz: There’s so many great things in life.
00:48:35.872 –> 00:48:37.232
Roddy: Go get it.
00:48:37.232 –> 00:48:41.392
Roddy: Tying in with what you said earlier, so thank you for that, is the flexibility.
00:48:41.392 –> 00:48:46.852
Roddy: If you don’t have a one-size-fits-all approach to it, the flexibility is going to require you to make all sorts of decisions.
00:48:47.052 –> 00:48:52.992
Roddy: It doesn’t mean everything I give six months, and that six months in one day will either pull the plug or it’s a win.
00:48:52.992 –> 00:48:56.492
Roddy: Some might be at three months, some might be three years later.
00:48:56.492 –> 00:49:06.792
Roddy: It sounds like what you’re saying is you’ve got to have a good team around you, just gather all sorts of data so you can make the right decision, as opposed to just having a style or a pre-determined, here’s how we’re going to go about it.
00:49:06.792 –> 00:49:10.372
Roddy: You’re just learning along the way as you get more data, if I’m understanding that correctly.
00:49:10.372 –> 00:49:11.832
Fultz: Yeah, that’s exactly right.
00:49:14.172 –> 00:49:21.872
Fultz: There’s a principle that much council is where wisdom comes from, and I’m a firm believer in that.
00:49:22.072 –> 00:49:27.912
Fultz: The more people that you can have giving you advice, it doesn’t mean it’s all accurate, it doesn’t mean it’s all 100 percent.
00:49:27.912 –> 00:49:33.792
Fultz: You should action on it, but it does make for a better decisioning process.
00:49:33.792 –> 00:49:41.932
Roddy: For sure, getting those additional perspectives that you don’t have, because you’re only going to have yours, and then you have to tap a lot of people on the shoulder and vacuum their brains.
00:49:41.932 –> 00:49:42.472
Roddy: That’s right.
00:49:42.472 –> 00:49:46.012
Fultz: Yeah, I’ve been very blessed to have lots of people who’ve given me great advice.
00:49:46.012 –> 00:49:53.392
Fultz: So I would say where I am at is as much to do with their help as anything that I did on my own.
00:49:53.392 –> 00:49:53.752
Roddy: Excellent.
00:49:53.752 –> 00:49:56.132
Roddy: Well, that does it for this episode of The Trusted Advisor.
00:49:56.132 –> 00:50:03.252
Roddy: If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to subscribe to the RSPA YouTube channel and The Trusted Advisor podcast so you never miss an episode.
00:50:03.252 –> 00:50:07.432
Roddy: Before we go, big thanks again to Bill Fultz for sharing his wisdom with us today.
00:50:07.432 –> 00:50:15.492
Roddy: Thanks also to RSPA Marketing Director Chris Arnold for his production work, Joseph McDade for our music, and last but not least, thanks so much to you for listening.
00:50:15.492 –> 00:50:22.732
Roddy: Our goal at the RSPA is to accelerate the success of our members in the retail technology ecosystem by providing knowledge and connections.
00:50:22.732 –> 00:50:26.332
Roddy: For more information, please visit our website at gorspa.org.
00:50:26.712 –> 00:50:30.172
Roddy: Thanks for listening, and goodbye everybody.
