In Episode 144 of “The Trusted Advisor,” RSPA CEO Jim Roddy sits down with Gary Manchel, the all-time winningest men’s basketball coach at Mercyhurst (PA) University, to talk leadership and change management. Among the topics discussed are how to stay focused on your core goals while experiencing significant change, best practices for leading a growing staff, how to sustain success despite change, and how to raise expectations to achieve new success.
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Full episode transcript via Apple Podcasts:
00:00:07.159 –> 00:00:14.719
Roddy: Welcome to another episode of The Trusted Advisor Podcast and Video Series, powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:00:14.719 –> 00:00:20.279
Roddy: Our goal on the pod is to accelerate the success of today’s and tomorrow’s leaders in the retail IT industry.
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Roddy: I’m Jim Roddy back with you again.
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Roddy: Thank you so much for joining us.
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Roddy: Frequent listeners and viewers of our podcast know we’ve been talking with leaders from both within and outside the RSPA member community about their leadership journeys and what they’ve learned along the way.
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Roddy: This is one of those rare ventures outside of our industry, with a leader who has achieved great success in an area that I’m passionate about, college basketball.
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Roddy: I’ve learned firsthand there are many lessons from the sports world that can be applied to business leadership.
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Roddy: Our guest today is Gary Manchel, who just started his 23rd season as the head men’s basketball coach at Division I Mercyhurst University in my hometown of Erie, Pennsylvania.
00:00:56.519 –> 00:01:02.799
Roddy: Gary is the school’s all-time winningest coach, entering the 25-26 season with 388 wins.
00:01:02.799 –> 00:01:13.039
Roddy: He’s also the first coach to take the program to the NCAA Tournament, which he’s done seven times, including in 2018-2019, when the Lakers advanced the Division II Elite Eight.
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Roddy: Regarded as one of the best defensive coaches in small college basketball, Coach Manchel surprised many basketball observers last season when Mercyhurst made the jump to Division I and posted a winning record at 9-7 in the Northeast Conference.
00:01:25.919 –> 00:01:29.459
Roddy: Coach Manchel, it is great to see you again and welcome to the podcast.
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Manchel: Great to be here.
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Manchel: Thanks so much for having me.
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Roddy: You bet.
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Roddy: Now, I saw your defenses drive opponents crazy on the Division II level for many years, and it’s nice to see you causing headaches for a whole new set of teams and programs across the country.
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Roddy: So, Coach, I’m hoping you can shed some light for our listeners and viewers today.
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Roddy: We’re not going to talk about X’s and O’s of basketball.
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Roddy: We’re going to talk about change management.
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Roddy: So while at Mercyhurst, you’ve changed leagues three times.
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Roddy: As I alluded to, you jumped from Division II to Division I.
00:01:58.599 –> 00:02:02.039
Roddy: Roster changes are more frequent now with the transfer portal.
00:02:02.039 –> 00:02:09.239
Roddy: And even when your home gymnasium was renovated, if memory serves me right, the architects change the direction of the court, instead of going east, west, north, south.
00:02:09.239 –> 00:02:15.319
Roddy: So what is your general leadership philosophy on how to handle change and change management in general?
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Manchel: Sure.
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Manchel: I think that the biggest thing for me is to figure out what the ultimate goal is.
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Manchel: And it’s going to be different for every business, for every coach, for every person, and whatever entity they’re in.
00:02:26.139 –> 00:02:35.999
Manchel: So for me, it’s when we deal with, like just take Mercyhurst, for instance, my biggest goal is threefold.
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Manchel: It is obviously wins.
00:02:37.919 –> 00:02:39.479
Manchel: You can get as many wins as possible.
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Manchel: The welfare of the student athlete.
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Manchel: Now, so what I probably want to do with those two things as far as our focus is everything that we do, whether it be the assistant coaches or myself, I want to kind of directly affect those two big picture ideas.
00:02:56.379 –> 00:03:06.219
Manchel: So if for me, if wins are important, then it comes into recruiting, it comes into scheduling, it comes into fundraising as far as resources.
00:03:06.219 –> 00:03:17.819
Manchel: So the way I’ve dealt with the change is from league to league, I’ve kind of narrowed down what I think it will take for us to accomplish our one or two goals.
00:03:17.819 –> 00:03:27.839
Manchel: And then with that being said, I want to then only deal with things that will directly influence those two things.
00:03:27.839 –> 00:03:41.719
Manchel: Now, there’s many, many other things that go into coaching a Division I basketball team, whether it be academics, whether it be filling out forms, whether it be doing receipts, whether it be team travel and ordering gear.
00:03:41.719 –> 00:03:56.319
Manchel: So I kind of delegate to my assistant coaches all those various things, and as a CEO, oversee them as far as periodically weekly meetings or monthly meetings based on things that I think are important and are non-important.
00:03:56.319 –> 00:04:02.179
Manchel: But I try and focus on things that will directly influence the top two goals.
00:04:02.179 –> 00:04:06.399
Manchel: One, wins, and two, the student-athlete welfare.
00:04:06.399 –> 00:04:23.719
Manchel: And along those lines, I kind of like predict as far as what we’re going to, who we’re going to recruit, who we’re going to play, and how we’re going to conduct our daily business every single day with the understanding that everything goes back to accomplishing the top two goals.
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Roddy: Thank you for that.
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Roddy: And how did you come up with that?
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Roddy: Is that something that you had right from when you got into coaching, or is that something you’ve developed over time?
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Manchel: Developed.
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Manchel: You know, the biggest mistake I made when I was 29 years old when I got the head coaching job at UMass Lowell.
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Manchel: And I know the guy that helped me get the job was Dan Van Gundy.
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Manchel: He was my college assistant coach at Vermont, and he was actually the head coach at UMass Lowell.
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Manchel: And when he moved on to Wisconsin with Stu Jackson, he’s the one that recommended me for the UMass Lowell job.
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Manchel: So at 29 years old, the biggest mistake I made was I thought everything was equal.
00:05:00.819 –> 00:05:12.059
Manchel: I thought a kid being late to a class, late to a meeting, missing a shot, missing an assignment, getting a bad grade, talking back to a coach.
00:05:12.059 –> 00:05:20.399
Manchel: Whatever they did as assistant coaches, as players, I treated everything equally.
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Manchel: What I’ve developed over the years from experience is not everything is equal.
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Manchel: So what I kind of like morphed into was this idea is, what is the big picture?
00:05:33.399 –> 00:05:34.599
Manchel: What is the main focus?
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Manchel: What are we trying to accomplish?
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Manchel: Then once we establish what we’re trying to accomplish, what I think the most important thing is, and it can’t be five or six things.
00:05:45.079 –> 00:05:46.539
Manchel: It’s got to be only one or two.
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Manchel: You can’t spread yourself too thin.
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Manchel: Then I’ve actually told my staff over the last 20 years at Mercyhurst that I don’t do anything, I don’t make any decision, I don’t worry about anything if it does not affect wins and losses or the welfare of my students.
00:06:06.139 –> 00:06:12.579
Manchel: I will deal with it on free time when I have, you know, like today we have a day off.
00:06:12.579 –> 00:06:34.359
Manchel: So today we met as a staff and we covered everything, practice times when we’re on the road, airline tickets when we’re flying, academics going around the room as far as who’s needs a tutor or who’s in trouble academically, a Zoom on Wednesday night for fund raising for alumni.
00:06:34.359 –> 00:06:41.119
Manchel: Because I had the time to actually do something that didn’t involve something that was directly influencing wins and losses.
00:06:41.119 –> 00:06:47.779
Manchel: But most of the times you’ll hear me say if it doesn’t affect wins and losses, I just don’t care.
00:06:47.779 –> 00:06:49.119
Manchel: Let someone else do it.
00:06:49.119 –> 00:07:07.039
Manchel: And I think that kind of developed over time, over experience about being the boss, learning that if you take away from chasing your goal, you’re going to kind of like lose sight and you’re going to lose track as far as accomplishing your goal.
00:07:07.039 –> 00:07:07.419
Roddy: Got it.
00:07:07.419 –> 00:07:07.719
Roddy: Got it.
00:07:07.719 –> 00:07:12.419
Roddy: So like first things first, you got to have priorities and other things fall in line.
00:07:13.479 –> 00:07:18.079
Roddy: So folks who might be saying like, well, I don’t know why I was Gary giving me this advice.
00:07:18.079 –> 00:07:23.699
Roddy: So you navigated change successfully last year, again, finishing third in the NEC regular season standings.
00:07:24.179 –> 00:07:33.719
Roddy: I’m curious, the core of your team was three Division 2 guys, including a transfer from a 7-21 program that didn’t qualify for its own D2 conference tournament.
00:07:33.719 –> 00:07:40.339
Roddy: So how did you get your players and your coaches to believe that immediately you could achieve that level of success?
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Manchel: Yeah.
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Manchel: In fact, all four of the five starters were Division 2.
00:07:45.259 –> 00:07:56.879
Manchel: I think the first thing is the understanding that nobody that you’re competing against in business, no one that you’re competing against at the Division 1 level cares about your problems.
00:07:58.199 –> 00:08:11.019
Manchel: I think once you understand that if you’re going to sit there, kind of rationalize things, make excuses for things, reasons why you can’t accomplish your goals, that’s going to affect you accomplishing your goals.
00:08:11.019 –> 00:08:13.999
Manchel: So the first thing, and I learned that from my father and mother.
00:08:13.999 –> 00:08:17.239
Manchel: They used to always say like, no one really cares about your problems.
00:08:17.239 –> 00:08:18.639
Manchel: Everybody has problems, Gary.
00:08:18.999 –> 00:08:23.079
Manchel: You got to pick an option, pick the best option and then just go with it.
00:08:23.079 –> 00:08:25.299
Manchel: The second thing is expectations.
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Manchel: With the people that work for you, the people that play for me, I kind of say from day one that when we start playing games, we expect to win.
00:08:34.279 –> 00:08:36.139
Manchel: We don’t care who we play.
00:08:36.139 –> 00:08:55.539
Manchel: And what helps is if you can have positive reinforcement, if you can have a win for us, a win in basketball against an opponent that maybe on paper, you’re not as good as, to kind of reinforce that you’re capable of doing things that you want to accomplish during the year, that’s gonna go a long way.
00:08:55.539 –> 00:08:57.179
Manchel: For us, we got a little lucky.
00:08:57.179 –> 00:08:59.699
Manchel: When our first year, we had two scrimmages.
00:08:59.699 –> 00:09:03.479
Manchel: We played Youngstown State and we played Duquesne in the Atlantic 10.
00:09:03.479 –> 00:09:05.879
Manchel: We actually beat Duquesne in a scrimmage.
00:09:05.879 –> 00:09:11.999
Manchel: And one of the things I preach that we work going up to Duquesne was I don’t care that they play in the Atlantic 10.
00:09:11.999 –> 00:09:14.459
Manchel: I don’t care that everyone thinks it’s supposed to be us.
00:09:14.459 –> 00:09:18.959
Manchel: When we start playing basketball, we have the expectation that we’re going to win.
00:09:18.959 –> 00:09:27.559
Manchel: So the four Division II guys, and I would say this now, on paper, there’s no way that we should have came in third.
00:09:27.559 –> 00:09:28.599
Manchel: Like I understand it.
00:09:28.599 –> 00:09:32.119
Manchel: Like we had an amazing year in year one.
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Manchel: Some of it, a lot of it had to do with we went into every game, we went into every practice, we went into the season not caring that we were Division II players, that we went in expecting the success we had at Division II, we deserve to have in Division I.
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Manchel: No one’s going to outwork us.
00:09:51.199 –> 00:09:54.599
Manchel: I’m not saying we’re going to work harder than other people, but we’re going to work the same.
00:09:54.599 –> 00:09:56.079
Manchel: We’re not going to get outworked.
00:09:56.079 –> 00:10:04.439
Manchel: But I think that the belief that my players and my staff had was, I didn’t really give them a choice to second guess themselves.
00:10:04.439 –> 00:10:05.979
Manchel: And I think that goes a long way.
00:10:05.979 –> 00:10:10.639
Manchel: I think when you raise the bar with people, they meet your expectations.
00:10:10.979 –> 00:10:21.199
Manchel: When you give excuses and you give rationalizations why you can’t accomplish something, you’re giving them an out for actually not accomplishing what your goal is.
00:10:21.199 –> 00:10:21.659
Roddy: Interesting.
00:10:21.659 –> 00:10:34.919
Roddy: And one of our members just actually recently said, and I found this pretty interesting, oftentimes organizations when the leader sets out, here’s how only how big I think we can be, that tends to be the max of what they ever get to.
00:10:34.919 –> 00:10:39.679
Roddy: But if somebody says, no, we could be as big or as powerful as whatever, but that’s what it sounds like you’re saying.
00:10:39.679 –> 00:10:41.119
Roddy: You’re starting with that.
00:10:41.119 –> 00:10:44.839
Roddy: You’re not looking because I remember a coach saying one time, hey, look at our schedule.
00:10:44.839 –> 00:10:46.039
Roddy: What do you think our record is going to be?
00:10:46.039 –> 00:10:48.099
Roddy: And a kid said like 26 and five.
00:10:48.099 –> 00:10:49.619
Roddy: Which five do you think we’re going to lose to?
00:10:49.619 –> 00:10:50.059
Roddy: Right.
00:10:50.059 –> 00:10:54.019
Roddy: It seems like for your entire schedule, you’re thinking going in, we got a chance.
00:10:54.019 –> 00:10:57.359
Roddy: We just got a like it’s a genuine belief that you have is what it sounds like.
00:10:57.359 –> 00:11:04.859
Manchel: And we reinforce that like almost every day or every week in practice, you’ll hear me say, I don’t care who’s hurt or injured.
00:11:04.859 –> 00:11:06.399
Manchel: I don’t care who we’re playing.
00:11:06.919 –> 00:11:10.899
Manchel: When they throw the ball up, our expectations is that we win.
00:11:10.899 –> 00:11:12.099
Manchel: And nothing short of that.
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Manchel: And then when, when you do lose, when you don’t accomplish what you want to accomplish, as far as your focus, you can’t say in my world, you can’t say that’s okay.
00:11:22.819 –> 00:11:26.239
Manchel: You have to say, that’s not good enough.
00:11:26.239 –> 00:11:29.959
Manchel: There’s something that we need to do or what we can do.
00:11:29.959 –> 00:11:38.799
Manchel: I never really believe in my whole career, that when we lost the ball game, well, we did everything we could do, the other team was just better.
00:11:38.799 –> 00:11:40.059
Manchel: I just never bought into that.
00:11:40.059 –> 00:11:50.479
Manchel: I always thought there is something that we should have done, we could have done, we got to figure about it on film, we got to figure it out in recruiting, we got to figure out on scheduling, we got to figure out on resources.
00:11:50.479 –> 00:11:56.499
Manchel: There is something that we can control to actually get the result that we want to get.
00:11:56.499 –> 00:11:56.799
Roddy: Got it.
00:11:56.799 –> 00:12:00.779
Roddy: So yeah, never the victim always in control, there’s always something you can do better.
00:12:01.379 –> 00:12:02.719
Roddy: So we’re talking about change.
00:12:02.879 –> 00:12:06.579
Roddy: I also want to talk from a staffing standpoint, because that’s been a change for you.
00:12:06.579 –> 00:12:10.119
Roddy: Folks who don’t know, Division 2 tends to have very small staff.
00:12:10.119 –> 00:12:12.499
Roddy: Some members, this will show how old I am.
00:12:12.499 –> 00:12:17.179
Roddy: But when I played at Gannon, which is my alma mater, they were a rival of Mercyhurst.
00:12:17.179 –> 00:12:19.439
Roddy: John Beeline was the head coach at LeMoyne.
00:12:19.439 –> 00:12:27.299
Roddy: He ended up, for those who don’t know, having great success in the college sports world, took Michigan, University of Michigan to the national championship game.
00:12:27.299 –> 00:12:29.539
Roddy: I remember him, he was the one who drove the van.
00:12:29.539 –> 00:12:32.479
Roddy: He would all unload the van and do everything of that nature.
00:12:33.039 –> 00:12:41.099
Roddy: When you made the jump from D2 to Division 1, your staff expanded, so now you have four assistant coaches plus a volunteer assistant coach.
00:12:41.099 –> 00:12:53.119
Roddy: I’m curious, how did you handle that in terms of changing how you ran your program, how you spent your day, and everything else related to really having more direct reports and really running a larger operation?
00:12:53.159 –> 00:12:55.199
Manchel: Yeah, no, it’s a great question.
00:12:55.339 –> 00:13:05.739
Manchel: I think it goes back to the first question as far as having a goal and having a clear understanding of what you want as a program.
00:13:05.739 –> 00:13:17.599
Manchel: So we went from one full-time assistant and a graduate assistant who was never here in the summertime because they weren’t getting paid, to four basically full-time assistants, and then we have a strength coach now.
00:13:17.599 –> 00:13:20.939
Manchel: We have a volunteer now, so we have a very large staff.
00:13:21.019 –> 00:13:26.619
Manchel: So the same thing applies to run any corporation, to run any business, to run a division one program.
00:13:26.619 –> 00:13:31.039
Manchel: There’s going to be 20, 25, 30 different things that it entails.
00:13:31.039 –> 00:13:41.199
Manchel: Some of them are very, very silly, like filling out a care report as far as how many hours you practice, or phone logs of who you recruited, or doing receipts at the end of the month.
00:13:41.199 –> 00:13:46.039
Manchel: There are some things that are just busy work that it doesn’t really matter who doesn’t.
00:13:46.039 –> 00:14:04.839
Manchel: I think the thing that people lose track of, when I assign my four assistant coaches different responsibilities, the number one thing still relies on what we started at the top of the show, in the sense that my focus is on winning and student welfare.
00:14:04.839 –> 00:14:08.579
Manchel: Because if the student welfare is really good, you’re going to have the player on the floor.
00:14:08.579 –> 00:14:11.719
Manchel: If they’re not hurt mentally or physically, they’re going to be playing.
00:14:11.719 –> 00:14:16.559
Manchel: If they’re playing at the highest level, it’s going to actually have a positive effect on winning basketball games.
00:14:16.559 –> 00:14:18.559
Manchel: So those are the two things that I focus on.
00:14:18.899 –> 00:14:30.539
Manchel: So, when I divvy up the responsibilities to my staff, I take the reins of watching the film, of scouting, of recruiting, of planning practice.
00:14:30.539 –> 00:14:36.379
Manchel: The things in my world will directly influence wins and losses.
00:14:36.379 –> 00:14:45.999
Manchel: But I don’t actually assign my assistant coaches the responsibilities for a good month, month and a half, until I get to know them.
00:14:45.999 –> 00:14:47.779
Manchel: I don’t think what you should do.
00:14:48.199 –> 00:14:55.099
Manchel: My philosophy is not just, hey, you take these three, you take the next guy takes another three, the third guy takes another three.
00:14:55.099 –> 00:15:00.379
Manchel: You want to find the strength of each assistant coaches, what they’re good at.
00:15:00.379 –> 00:15:03.239
Manchel: And that’s what you put them responsible for.
00:15:03.239 –> 00:15:13.959
Manchel: Hopefully, you kind of like coach them up during your careers with you to get them more well-rounded, so they can do a variety of different things.
00:15:13.979 –> 00:15:26.339
Manchel: Once I got to know what like assistant coach was just really good academically, just really had a knack for getting players to reach their potential academically, to following up with teachers, they had a good rapport with the teachers.
00:15:26.359 –> 00:15:30.339
Manchel: Once I got a feeling of that, then I would put that person in charge of academics.
00:15:30.339 –> 00:15:46.039
Manchel: If I thought the guy was really organized, really meticulous, I would put him in things, his responsibilities would be things that included those types of avenues, whether it be receipts, whether it be filling out forms.
00:15:46.979 –> 00:15:55.579
Manchel: If I thought a person was just good at being organized with the ordering the gear, well, that’s what I put them in charge of.
00:15:55.579 –> 00:16:03.499
Manchel: So when I hire staff, I don’t try, the only thing that I kind of want to have a common theme in coaching is recruiting.
00:16:03.499 –> 00:16:09.339
Manchel: I want as many good recruiters as evaluators, guys with good eyes as I can.
00:16:09.339 –> 00:16:15.379
Manchel: After that, I try to have them complement not only each other, but from me as well.
00:16:15.559 –> 00:16:19.759
Manchel: In other words, I think one of my greatest strength is the X’s and O’s.
00:16:19.759 –> 00:16:28.019
Manchel: So I try to worry about other things that I feel like I’m not strong at as far as when I hire my assistant coaches.
00:16:28.019 –> 00:16:31.019
Manchel: I don’t really need a great X and O’s.
00:16:31.019 –> 00:16:38.559
Manchel: If we can find someone that can do that with those other things, great, because those conversations can only help us get better.
00:16:38.559 –> 00:16:46.179
Manchel: But what I would like to do is I’m really bad on things that don’t directly influence Wins and Losses.
00:16:46.179 –> 00:16:47.219
Manchel: I’m really bad.
00:16:47.499 –> 00:16:48.339
Manchel: I just don’t care.
00:16:49.039 –> 00:16:52.299
Manchel: I just push this on consistently.
00:16:52.299 –> 00:16:57.779
Manchel: Almost every day, if somebody doesn’t affect Wins and Losses, we had a team meeting with the staff today.
00:16:57.779 –> 00:16:59.999
Manchel: Actually, I forget what we’re talking about.
00:16:59.999 –> 00:17:01.479
Manchel: I said, I just don’t care.
00:17:01.479 –> 00:17:02.279
Manchel: Do whatever you want.
00:17:02.279 –> 00:17:02.999
Manchel: I don’t care.
00:17:02.999 –> 00:17:04.519
Manchel: Just let me know what we’re doing.
00:17:04.519 –> 00:17:07.339
Manchel: But I don’t care what we do.
00:17:08.119 –> 00:17:29.899
Manchel: You want to find someone that will make you look good as a CEO or as a head coach, but also when you assign responsibilities to the people that work for you, get to know them before you assign them responsibilities so that they are strong in what they’re doing, so they can make your program look the best it can be.
00:17:29.899 –> 00:17:33.459
Manchel: I mean, it’s something as simple as community service, which is really important.
00:17:33.459 –> 00:17:43.019
Manchel: It doesn’t affect wins and losses, but administrators like it, presidents like it, and it’s good for the learning curve of our student athletes to learn how to give back.
00:17:43.879 –> 00:17:48.019
Manchel: We have a guy on my staff, Joe Cosgrove, that’s really into it.
00:17:48.019 –> 00:18:00.699
Manchel: Like he goes out of his way to call elementary schools, middle schools, YMCAs, other teams in the area, just to be part of the community.
00:18:00.979 –> 00:18:02.439
Manchel: He embraces it.
00:18:02.439 –> 00:18:03.479
Manchel: He likes it.
00:18:03.479 –> 00:18:04.579
Manchel: He’s good at it.
00:18:04.579 –> 00:18:09.299
Manchel: He does things during the month that I don’t even know that we’re doing.
00:18:11.099 –> 00:18:18.779
Manchel: Because of that, every year, then when we divvy up the responsibilities, he always gets, hey, Joe, you’re responsible for community service.
00:18:20.159 –> 00:18:24.019
Manchel: It can make your program look good even though you’re not really involved.
00:18:24.019 –> 00:18:35.019
Manchel: But I think one of the keys with a big staff is not just automatically assigning them responsibilities before you get to know what their strengths and weaknesses are.
00:18:35.019 –> 00:18:36.719
Roddy: Yeah, find out what they’re enthusiastic about.
00:18:36.719 –> 00:18:42.039
Roddy: But it seems like even zooming out, it’s almost first, you have to know thyself.
00:18:42.039 –> 00:18:44.779
Roddy: Some people, leaders are like, I’m great at everything.
00:18:45.599 –> 00:18:46.679
Roddy: I lead everything.
00:18:46.679 –> 00:18:49.299
Roddy: I have to stick my hands in everything.
00:18:49.299 –> 00:18:54.919
Roddy: It sounds like you understand there’s some things that you’re just not strong at and then just lean into your strengths.
00:18:54.919 –> 00:18:57.699
Roddy: So I guess there’s an element of some humility in recognizing that.
00:18:57.699 –> 00:19:00.959
Roddy: Is that accurate that you’ve got to understand what you’re doing?
00:19:00.959 –> 00:19:06.119
Manchel: If you’re not honest with yourself, I think it will affect achieving your ultimate goal.
00:19:08.059 –> 00:19:17.879
Manchel: I think you’re going to be redundant in far as how you do things if you’re overlapping with what you’re doing and your employees and what your staff is doing.
00:19:17.879 –> 00:19:27.939
Manchel: I think the more things you can spread out and do as well as you possibly can, knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are actually benefits the end product.
00:19:27.999 –> 00:19:28.519
Manchel: It actually does.
00:19:28.799 –> 00:19:36.639
Manchel: And I’m really good at that in the sense of I know I can’t stand these two or three things.
00:19:36.639 –> 00:19:44.259
Manchel: Like I’m off the charts with not caring about anything about how we look as far as our gear.
00:19:44.299 –> 00:19:45.459
Manchel: I’m old school.
00:19:45.459 –> 00:19:48.419
Manchel: I like a pair of sneakers, a t-shirt, we’re good.
00:19:48.419 –> 00:19:51.879
Manchel: But in today’s world, that’s not the way division one works.
00:19:51.879 –> 00:19:54.739
Manchel: So knowing that, I put my assistant coach in charge of it.
00:19:55.179 –> 00:19:56.919
Manchel: And I give him a budget.
00:19:56.919 –> 00:20:00.759
Manchel: Like I say, like, hey, listen, let’s try and keep it within this.
00:20:00.759 –> 00:20:02.379
Manchel: And then I’ll oversee it.
00:20:02.379 –> 00:20:08.699
Manchel: I would say we meet no more than three or four times a year as far as what we’re doing.
00:20:08.699 –> 00:20:16.159
Manchel: And most of the times that we meet is based on how much we’re spending versus what we’re actually spending it on.
00:20:16.159 –> 00:20:20.719
Manchel: And I just let him do what he wants to do and making the players happy.
00:20:20.719 –> 00:20:22.159
Manchel: So I think that’s one.
00:20:24.359 –> 00:20:28.279
Manchel: The receipts, the forms, when I was 29, I did it all.
00:20:28.279 –> 00:20:33.059
Manchel: Or if I put an assistant coach in charge of it, I was always looking over their shoulder.
00:20:33.059 –> 00:20:35.459
Manchel: Now it’s like, just do it.
00:20:35.579 –> 00:20:44.099
Manchel: And I’ll follow up because at the end of the day, and every CEO will say this, if it doesn’t work out, you’re still going to be the person they blame.
00:20:44.099 –> 00:20:49.939
Manchel: Like the administration, the president is not going to go to one of my assistants, how come this guy failed the test and not eligible?
00:20:49.939 –> 00:20:51.399
Manchel: How come you’re over budget?
00:20:51.699 –> 00:20:55.399
Manchel: How come the forms aren’t filled out?
00:20:55.399 –> 00:20:56.819
Manchel: They’re going to you.
00:20:56.819 –> 00:20:58.399
Manchel: So you still have to oversee it.
00:20:58.399 –> 00:21:06.299
Manchel: And that’s one of the reasons why it’s important to make sure the people that you put in charge of it are good at what they do as far as their strengths and weaknesses.
00:21:06.299 –> 00:21:11.379
Roddy: Yeah, because they’ll be self-motivated to do it as opposed to you having to kick them in the butt in order to do it.
00:21:11.899 –> 00:21:13.479
Roddy: So we’ve talked about change management.
00:21:13.479 –> 00:21:25.679
Roddy: And so along those lines, I’m curious, what have you learned about how to sustain success as a program and as an organization despite all the change that you and your team have experienced?
00:21:25.679 –> 00:21:27.559
Roddy: How have you been able to do this so consistently?
00:21:27.559 –> 00:21:30.159
Roddy: Because so folks who don’t know, I’m going to talk about this a little bit more.
00:21:30.159 –> 00:21:34.179
Roddy: Mercyhurst was not like you jumped in and it was like a powerhouse, right?
00:21:34.179 –> 00:21:35.979
Roddy: And you’re just like, let’s keep this thing going.
00:21:35.979 –> 00:21:37.099
Roddy: You had to build it up.
00:21:37.099 –> 00:21:39.439
Roddy: So how have you been able to sustain that success?
00:21:39.519 –> 00:21:40.879
Manchel: I think a couple of things.
00:21:40.879 –> 00:21:46.379
Manchel: First of all, in any business and coaching, winning is hard.
00:21:46.379 –> 00:21:47.639
Manchel: Being successful is hard.
00:21:47.879 –> 00:21:52.419
Manchel: It’s not like you just wake up and you just want to be successful and you are.
00:21:52.419 –> 00:22:00.379
Manchel: I think that the four things that really I’ve learned throughout my career, I think that’s probably number one, like it’s difficult.
00:22:01.119 –> 00:22:05.159
Manchel: Number two, everybody wants to do it.
00:22:05.159 –> 00:22:07.779
Manchel: In other words, everyone wants to win.
00:22:07.779 –> 00:22:09.879
Manchel: Everyone wants to be successful.
00:22:09.879 –> 00:22:22.299
Manchel: The thing that separates the people is whether or not they’re talented, whether or not they have the resources, whether or not they have the work ethic, whether or not they have the people with them.
00:22:22.299 –> 00:22:24.979
Manchel: You’re only as good as your staff and your employees.
00:22:24.979 –> 00:22:38.079
Manchel: But the other thing that actually was good for me in my career, I’ve always taken jobs that were always difficult jobs that never won other than Ohio University.
00:22:38.079 –> 00:22:42.579
Manchel: When I was an assistant at Yale University, they were not good.
00:22:42.579 –> 00:22:46.919
Manchel: Now, James Jones has got it going and he’s done an unbelievable job.
00:22:46.919 –> 00:22:57.519
Manchel: But when I left to go to UMass Lowell at that time, we had the best four-year win-loss record in the 100 years of Yale University.
00:22:57.519 –> 00:23:02.779
Manchel: When I went to UMass Lowell, they only went to one NCAA appearance.
00:23:02.779 –> 00:23:05.419
Manchel: They only had three winning seasons.
00:23:05.419 –> 00:23:10.399
Manchel: Even Stan McGundy, who is a pro coach, had under 500 record.
00:23:10.399 –> 00:23:17.499
Manchel: So it teaches you and then when I went to Mercyhurst, same thing as you just mentioned, seven winning seasons, no NCAAs.
00:23:17.499 –> 00:23:19.359
Manchel: They only went to the league playoffs three times.
00:23:19.359 –> 00:23:20.559
Manchel: They were 0-3.
00:23:20.559 –> 00:23:22.979
Manchel: Ohio University had a tradition.
00:23:22.979 –> 00:23:28.059
Manchel: So when I was an assistant at Ohio, people before me, people after me, they all won.
00:23:28.059 –> 00:23:32.899
Manchel: So the third thing that I’ve learned is, there’s always a niche.
00:23:32.899 –> 00:23:46.439
Manchel: In other words, if you have something that you are trying to establish, try to be successful at, and there was a track record of a tradition in the past that has worked, then you just keep it going.
00:23:46.439 –> 00:23:51.399
Manchel: You tweak it with your ideas and success breeds success.
00:23:51.399 –> 00:24:00.479
Manchel: My jobs at UMass Lowell, at Yale, at Mercyhurst, there was no playbook as far as how to be successful.
00:24:00.479 –> 00:24:13.499
Manchel: So what you have to learn was how to create something that was different to put you in a position to warrant success when maybe a lot of people before you didn’t do that.
00:24:13.499 –> 00:24:21.879
Manchel: Now for basketball, one of the things that I brought to the table was our matchup defense, something that people didn’t play.
00:24:21.879 –> 00:24:27.939
Manchel: One of the things that kind of made the game even if you’re playing someone that had better talent.
00:24:27.939 –> 00:24:31.379
Manchel: The fourth thing is probably as important as anything else.
00:24:31.379 –> 00:24:35.559
Manchel: The first time you do something is the hardest.
00:24:35.559 –> 00:24:39.499
Manchel: We came close a couple of times making the NCAA tournament.
00:24:40.019 –> 00:24:42.639
Manchel: I think one time, we really should have made it.
00:24:42.639 –> 00:24:44.859
Manchel: We were fourth in the region.
00:24:44.859 –> 00:24:49.599
Manchel: Luis Leon got hurt in the very last game of the year against Indiana, Pennsylvania.
00:24:49.599 –> 00:24:51.339
Manchel: Didn’t play in the first playoff game.
00:24:51.339 –> 00:24:54.379
Manchel: And then five, six, seven, eight all lost.
00:24:54.379 –> 00:25:00.759
Manchel: But they didn’t put us in because they didn’t think we were the same team because he had an ACL, so he was out for the NCAAs.
00:25:01.299 –> 00:25:03.299
Manchel: But we were close two or three times.
00:25:03.299 –> 00:25:09.079
Manchel: After we broke through and made the NCAAs, it was still hard to be successful.
00:25:09.079 –> 00:25:19.479
Manchel: But that chip that was off your shoulder, the I don’t know if it was pressure, I don’t know if it was expectations, whatever term you want to use it.
00:25:19.499 –> 00:25:32.979
Manchel: Once you understand what it takes, and you see that what you do accomplishes your goal, it does become easier to sustain success because now you have the playbook.
00:25:33.479 –> 00:25:36.559
Manchel: Now you know what works.
00:25:36.559 –> 00:25:52.779
Manchel: Trial and error, for me, was the best teacher going from Yale to Lowell to Mercyhurst as far as what do we need to do if we do, and it goes back to what we were talking about before.
00:25:52.779 –> 00:25:58.499
Manchel: Yes, when I was at UMass Lowell, we had a part-time coach, we had eight scholarships, everyone else had 10.
00:25:58.499 –> 00:26:03.039
Manchel: And when my assistant coaches and my director of athletes, she’d say, listen, just be competitive.
00:26:03.299 –> 00:26:05.339
Manchel: You don’t have what everyone else has.
00:26:05.339 –> 00:26:13.899
Manchel: I would actually say to my staff, who was one part-time person, and to my players, no one cares.
00:26:13.899 –> 00:26:18.179
Manchel: When we play the other teams, they don’t care that they have more resources than us.
00:26:18.179 –> 00:26:19.759
Manchel: They are trying to beat you.
00:26:19.759 –> 00:26:37.179
Manchel: So we have to figure out a way in our own department, figure out a way how to make the game even so we can be successful and not have an excuse where we don’t have what other people have.
00:26:37.179 –> 00:26:39.799
Manchel: It’s the same thing now in Division I.
00:26:39.799 –> 00:26:48.059
Manchel: With this NIL, we obviously don’t have the money that the teams that we are going to play.
00:26:48.059 –> 00:26:52.719
Manchel: One of the teams in our league is paying guys six figures, for God’s sakes.
00:26:52.719 –> 00:26:53.659
Manchel: They don’t care though.
00:26:53.859 –> 00:26:56.559
Manchel: They are still going to try and crush us when we play them.
00:26:56.559 –> 00:27:05.559
Manchel: So if we don’t come up with a way to make the game even and finding our niche to be successful, then we are going to struggle.
00:27:05.559 –> 00:27:13.339
Manchel: So I think for me, I do believe this, there is always a way to be successful.
00:27:13.339 –> 00:27:21.539
Manchel: It’s going to be different from job to job, especially if the job you take doesn’t have a playbook as far as what worked in the past.
00:27:22.139 –> 00:27:22.959
Roddy: Yeah, yeah.
00:27:22.959 –> 00:27:39.119
Roddy: And this is, so for folks who are like listening, they’re like, oh, now I see the correlation between leading a Baspo program and leading a business, because we have a lot of small businesses here that are going up against giant companies with national companies with huge marketing budgets.
00:27:39.119 –> 00:27:40.819
Roddy: And then you talk about trial and error.
00:27:40.819 –> 00:27:44.999
Roddy: I say all the time, try, test, measure, adapt, try, test, measure, adapt.
00:27:44.999 –> 00:27:51.019
Roddy: You really don’t know what’s going to work, but especially being a smaller organization, you can be nimble and you can do that.
00:27:51.099 –> 00:27:52.159
Roddy: That’s what it sounds like you’ve done.
00:27:52.159 –> 00:28:01.599
Roddy: And now that you’ve found, like you said, that match up zone, which is driving all sorts of people crazy, which I always enjoyed, unless you were playing against my alma mater.
00:28:01.599 –> 00:28:02.719
Roddy: It was really great to see.
00:28:02.719 –> 00:28:08.459
Roddy: And so that’s what it sounds like that you’ve figured out that niche and you build everything around that.
00:28:08.459 –> 00:28:12.679
Roddy: If I’m understanding correctly, you recruit guys who want to play that, who can play that.
00:28:12.679 –> 00:28:14.139
Manchel: Who think you can play it.
00:28:14.159 –> 00:28:22.159
Manchel: Now, it’s harder and harder now in Division I with the Porta, with people moving in from different team to different team over the course of four years.
00:28:22.159 –> 00:28:52.679
Manchel: But yeah, I think the two things that we have learned as far as how to be successful at Mercyhurst, with the lack of resources that we have compared to maybe some of the guys that were playing, is you got to be creative and you got to figure out something that you can put your hat on that maybe is different and that can make it even with a team, for us specifically, with a team that maybe has better players, has more resources.
00:28:52.679 –> 00:28:58.739
Manchel: But you guys still have to figure out, because like I said, no one cares about your problems.
00:28:58.739 –> 00:29:02.879
Manchel: You still got to figure out how to be successful if that is one of your goals.
00:29:03.299 –> 00:29:06.659
Manchel: I’ve never been wired to be competitive.
00:29:06.659 –> 00:29:08.339
Manchel: I just never been wired to do that.
00:29:08.339 –> 00:29:14.519
Manchel: I’ve always been wired, you know, if they’re going to keep score, you just went.
00:29:14.519 –> 00:29:17.499
Manchel: And it doesn’t really matter who we play.
00:29:17.499 –> 00:29:19.279
Manchel: Doesn’t matter who’s hurt.
00:29:19.279 –> 00:29:25.699
Manchel: Just year after year, one of the things that I talk to my staff all the time is we came in third last year.
00:29:25.699 –> 00:29:27.399
Manchel: I said, well, we’ve done that.
00:29:27.399 –> 00:29:28.999
Manchel: I want to come in first or second.
00:29:28.999 –> 00:29:31.219
Manchel: You know, it just, it is what it is.
00:29:31.219 –> 00:29:36.979
Manchel: Knowing that last year, in all walks of life in Basel was a great year.
00:29:36.979 –> 00:29:41.639
Manchel: Being in transition and coming in third and being in five, it’s still not good enough.
00:29:41.759 –> 00:29:46.799
Manchel: And that’s the expectations you have to like, sell to your staff and sell to your players.
00:29:46.799 –> 00:29:47.679
Roddy: Yeah.
00:29:47.679 –> 00:29:55.379
Roddy: So we’re going to pause for a moment to thank these companies who support the RSPA community and make this podcast and video series possible.
00:29:55.439 –> 00:29:57.359
Roddy: Our Platinum sponsor is Bluestar.
00:29:57.359 –> 00:30:02.159
Roddy: Our gold sponsors are Crocard, Epson, Heartland, and ScanSource.
00:30:02.159 –> 00:30:06.339
Roddy: So coach, you alluded to your final 10 years coaching division 2.
00:30:06.339 –> 00:30:08.899
Roddy: You set that standard of excellence, right?
00:30:08.899 –> 00:30:11.059
Roddy: You qualified for your conference tournament every year.
00:30:11.059 –> 00:30:13.699
Roddy: You qualified for seven NCAA tournaments.
00:30:13.699 –> 00:30:19.679
Roddy: In your first 12 years at Mercyhurst, if you’re talking about, you got close many times but didn’t make it to the NCAAs.
00:30:19.679 –> 00:30:28.479
Roddy: So can you talk about a little bit more, how did you want to come across as a leader when you were good, but just not quite good enough?
00:30:28.479 –> 00:30:36.199
Roddy: How hard was it when you talked about the, what does it mean to have that reputation and that’s past success of winning?
00:30:36.199 –> 00:30:39.259
Roddy: A lot of people, when they played Mercyhurst before, they thought we could beat them.
00:30:39.259 –> 00:30:44.339
Roddy: Well, suddenly it was like, these guys are going to be a real headache to play against.
00:30:44.339 –> 00:30:52.459
Roddy: Can you talk about, what did you have to do as a leader to keep the guys coming back year after year even when you were so good, but it just wasn’t where you want it to be?
00:30:52.459 –> 00:30:53.679
Roddy: Talk about that.
00:30:53.679 –> 00:31:00.939
Manchel: Yeah, I think one of the things that you try and sell is what you envision the program being like.
00:31:00.939 –> 00:31:16.439
Manchel: In other words, one of the things I consistently said when we got close and close and close but didn’t really get over the hump is, can you imagine us sitting in the office watching the selection show and being that first team in the history of the school to go to the NCAA?
00:31:16.439 –> 00:31:24.939
Manchel: So you kind of dangle the carrot as far as getting to understand and it’s going to be something that they’ll remember the rest of their life.
00:31:24.939 –> 00:31:33.779
Manchel: The way I would correlate with business is you want a bigger house, you want a nicer car, you want to send your kids to college, you want to get a promotion.
00:31:33.779 –> 00:31:50.299
Manchel: You kind of dangle the carrot where if you do these things, X, Y, or Z, and you kind of, for me, if you chase winning, all the other stuff as far as money, accolades and promotions will take care of itself.
00:31:50.299 –> 00:31:59.879
Manchel: If you chase the money, if you chase the accolades, if you chase the promotions, winning doesn’t necessarily coincide.
00:31:59.879 –> 00:32:13.139
Manchel: So one of the things that we did, and one of the things I will say, it’s extremely hard the first year to do something that no one else has done, was far more difficult than to do it again.
00:32:13.139 –> 00:32:22.019
Manchel: And the reason for that, as we both alluded to, is we weren’t sure what it meant to be successful yet.
00:32:22.019 –> 00:32:23.759
Manchel: Now one of the things…
00:32:23.759 –> 00:32:24.919
Roddy: You didn’t know your niche.
00:32:24.919 –> 00:32:27.399
Roddy: You thought something might work, but you didn’t know your niche yet.
00:32:27.399 –> 00:32:28.199
Manchel: Okay.
00:32:28.199 –> 00:32:29.319
Manchel: We didn’t know our niche.
00:32:29.319 –> 00:32:37.199
Manchel: We had an idea, like when we, when I first got the job at Mercyhurst, just to talk basketball, we played man-to-man.
00:32:37.199 –> 00:32:37.559
Roddy: Okay.
00:32:37.559 –> 00:32:39.819
Manchel: You know, and we were pretty good at it.
00:32:39.819 –> 00:32:44.159
Manchel: We were, I think, top 10 in the country in points against, but we played man-to-man.
00:32:44.159 –> 00:32:52.619
Manchel: And we just kept on being 16 wins, 18 wins, 20 wins, 15 wins, 16 wins, and never made the tournament.
00:32:52.619 –> 00:32:56.399
Manchel: And then one year, I just didn’t feel we had the personnel.
00:32:56.399 –> 00:33:01.259
Manchel: And I had invented the match of defense when I was assistant coach at Yale, but the Yale guys were different.
00:33:01.259 –> 00:33:02.419
Manchel: They were really smart.
00:33:02.419 –> 00:33:03.899
Manchel: I mean, there was a different breed.
00:33:04.379 –> 00:33:07.479
Manchel: I mean, they were like high, high IQ guys.
00:33:07.479 –> 00:33:10.859
Manchel: So over the years, I’ve tweaked it like three or four times.
00:33:10.859 –> 00:33:12.959
Manchel: And one of the years, I just said, you know what?
00:33:12.959 –> 00:33:17.439
Manchel: We just can’t compete with the Gannons, with the Indiana Pennsylvanians, with the CalPBAs.
00:33:17.439 –> 00:33:18.679
Manchel: We just can’t compete.
00:33:18.679 –> 00:33:21.859
Manchel: We have to do something where, you know, what the heck?
00:33:21.859 –> 00:33:23.919
Manchel: Let’s just try the matchup again.
00:33:23.919 –> 00:33:25.679
Manchel: That bring up, we did a little bit low.
00:33:25.679 –> 00:33:28.759
Manchel: We did a lot at Yale and see what happens.
00:33:28.759 –> 00:33:31.219
Manchel: And what I found was the coaches kind of struggled with it.
00:33:31.219 –> 00:33:33.359
Manchel: So then we kind of like built along that.
00:33:33.499 –> 00:33:48.159
Manchel: And kind of re-recruited guys that we thought that maybe, the interesting thing is when we were really successful, we hardly beat out other schools for players, because we would recruit a different type.
00:33:48.159 –> 00:33:50.459
Manchel: And the same thing I would say for business.
00:33:50.459 –> 00:34:04.939
Manchel: In other words, once you find the game plan that works for productivity or for success, don’t worry about hiring the person because you pay them more money over these other three companies.
00:34:04.939 –> 00:34:14.299
Manchel: I would say for coaching is, I look for certain things that work specifically for me and not for other Division 1s.
00:34:14.319 –> 00:34:21.179
Manchel: If I go in the gym and I say, well, this kid’s really good, the next question is, but can they play the way we play?
00:34:21.179 –> 00:34:24.739
Manchel: Who cares if they’re really good if they’re not on the court?
00:34:24.739 –> 00:34:31.999
Manchel: So for us, the two things would be one, the very first time to do something, brutal.
00:34:31.999 –> 00:34:38.079
Manchel: And the way we did that was trial and error, tweaking the matchup, re-recruiting different guys.
00:34:38.079 –> 00:34:44.199
Manchel: But then the second thing is kind of dangling that thing, the expectation in front of my players.
00:34:44.199 –> 00:34:51.179
Manchel: Can you imagine how you would feel being the first person on the first team of an NCAA?
00:34:51.179 –> 00:34:54.039
Manchel: So then we go to the NCAA, we lose in the first round.
00:34:54.039 –> 00:35:00.939
Manchel: So the next year was, can you imagine being that first person on that first team that wins an NCAA game?
00:35:00.939 –> 00:35:04.039
Manchel: We beat Wheeling as the eighth seed, we win an NCAA game.
00:35:04.039 –> 00:35:07.159
Manchel: Can you imagine that first person being in the elite eight?
00:35:07.159 –> 00:35:08.759
Manchel: And we just keep on doing that.
00:35:08.759 –> 00:35:26.899
Manchel: And then eventually we got to be, instead of just a team that maybe could be competitive, we at the end, we’re an elite division two team that every year people would pick us in the top two or three and we’d be in the top 25 and people would say, hey, that’s gonna be a great win if we can beat Mercyhurst.
00:35:26.919 –> 00:35:29.819
Manchel: So then dangle it, can you imagine winning an actual championship?
00:35:29.819 –> 00:35:33.839
Manchel: Now we never got that opportunity because we went division one.
00:35:33.839 –> 00:35:49.039
Manchel: So now it’s like, for my players is, can you imagine being that guy that wins the league, goes to the NCAA tournament or beating a power four team and having the upset and having the highlights shown in ESPN?
00:35:49.039 –> 00:36:04.859
Manchel: So you kind of want to get to work, do the things that you think you need to do to be successful, but also have something for the players to be excited about, about being different from maybe the people before them.
00:36:04.859 –> 00:36:05.299
Roddy: Got it.
00:36:05.299 –> 00:36:06.279
Roddy: No, thank you for that.
00:36:06.279 –> 00:36:09.299
Roddy: And so my next question, I’m going to tell you a little bit of a story first.
00:36:09.299 –> 00:36:20.859
Roddy: So even though for our listeners, so Coach Manchel has been at Mercyhurst for almost a quarter of a century, but I’ve actually been following Mercyhurst basketball longer since the 1980s, go back to the days of Billy Kalbaugh.
00:36:20.859 –> 00:36:25.979
Roddy: But so I played at Gannon, which was Mercyhurst arch rival in Division II at the time.
00:36:25.979 –> 00:36:32.139
Roddy: The year after Gannon, I was working for somebody who actually, did they still have that big preseason basketball banquet?
00:36:32.139 –> 00:36:33.139
Roddy: We started coaching there.
00:36:33.139 –> 00:36:34.079
Manchel: Yes, great.
00:36:34.079 –> 00:36:37.419
Roddy: Yes, like it was Dick Vitell, Billy Packer, all these well-known folks who come in.
00:36:37.419 –> 00:36:40.839
Roddy: Well, he had a table there and so he invited me to attend.
00:36:40.839 –> 00:36:45.859
Roddy: I was like one year out from playing, being a walk-on at Gannon, I felt like the Fox in the hen house.
00:36:45.859 –> 00:36:58.279
Roddy: The thing that struck me, the one thing I remember about that, the MC when he would announce the entire roster for the women’s team and circle on your calendar, the home game January 31st against Gannon.
00:36:58.279 –> 00:37:00.259
Roddy: I’m like, why are we talking about Gannon?
00:37:00.259 –> 00:37:04.399
Roddy: Then they announced the men and then they said, remember January 31st, they’re playing Gannon.
00:37:04.399 –> 00:37:08.219
Roddy: I’m like, you guys can do better than just beating Gannon, right?
00:37:08.219 –> 00:37:10.659
Roddy: It seemed like their expectations and that’s what it was.
00:37:10.659 –> 00:37:12.759
Roddy: We would always joke when the Mercyhurst coach would beat Gannon.
00:37:12.759 –> 00:37:15.719
Roddy: We’re like, well, they got another year contract extension.
00:37:15.719 –> 00:37:18.059
Roddy: That was the thing, that was the goal.
00:37:18.059 –> 00:37:21.839
Roddy: I guess, we’ve talked a lot about raising expectations for the team.
00:37:22.359 –> 00:37:32.619
Roddy: Can you talk about even broader to get other people to believe it’s bigger than just, you know, what I get, what I saw was like, it was nice to that Gannon was flattered that way.
00:37:32.619 –> 00:37:34.999
Roddy: But you guys can do better than this.
00:37:34.999 –> 00:37:39.319
Roddy: Can you talk about maybe blocking out the noise, getting other people or does that not even matter?
00:37:39.319 –> 00:37:39.879
Roddy: Does that go back?
00:37:39.879 –> 00:37:41.219
Manchel: No, no, it’s a good question.
00:37:41.499 –> 00:37:45.279
Manchel: You know, and the reality sometimes is what the facts are in the reality.
00:37:45.279 –> 00:37:50.839
Manchel: Like when I got the job at Mercyhurst, Mercyhurst was 10 wins, 41 losses against Gannon.
00:37:51.699 –> 00:37:54.799
Manchel: So that’s why the Gannon game was such a big game.
00:37:55.399 –> 00:38:01.519
Manchel: It was not only, it was a mile down the road, is that we just, they never won.
00:38:01.519 –> 00:38:09.079
Manchel: And we were fortunate enough that when we went to Division 1, our record, I think, was like 16 wins and 14 losses.
00:38:09.079 –> 00:38:10.959
Manchel: Like we actually had a winning record.
00:38:10.959 –> 00:38:17.939
Manchel: But one of the things that you have to do is one, you have to make people believe that you’re the story.
00:38:20.059 –> 00:38:21.339
Manchel: In other words, you’re right.
00:38:21.339 –> 00:38:32.659
Manchel: When people say, well, circle this game against Gannon, you need to kind of change the dialogue with, people need to circle Mercyhurst on their schedule as far as that’s the game.
00:38:32.659 –> 00:38:37.039
Manchel: And then instead of worrying about Gannon, why aren’t we worrying about making the NCAAs?
00:38:37.039 –> 00:38:41.139
Manchel: Instead of worrying about making the NCAAs, why don’t we worry about getting out of the region?
00:38:41.139 –> 00:38:45.199
Manchel: Instead of worrying about getting out of the region, why don’t we worry about how to compete for a national championship?
00:38:45.199 –> 00:38:48.919
Manchel: Instead of worrying about national, why don’t we compete now in division one?
00:38:48.919 –> 00:39:02.699
Manchel: Now that is difficult because if you don’t have the tradition of the past, then people are going to look at you like, what are you talking about?
00:39:02.699 –> 00:39:10.779
Manchel: So I think the first thing is you have to put a product on the floor to change people’s perception of who you are.
00:39:11.559 –> 00:39:21.099
Manchel: And the one thing that is actually a little bit subjective is it has to be something they see.
00:39:21.099 –> 00:39:22.979
Manchel: It can’t be just talk.
00:39:22.979 –> 00:39:25.179
Manchel: You can’t convince a reporter.
00:39:25.179 –> 00:39:27.319
Manchel: You can’t convince the community.
00:39:27.319 –> 00:39:38.659
Manchel: You can’t convince administrators that we’re better than circling Gannon on the schedule until we prove we’re equal or better than Gannon.
00:39:39.259 –> 00:39:42.839
Manchel: One of the things, we had to run towards the end.
00:39:42.839 –> 00:39:52.919
Manchel: I probably was one of the reasons why Calvin got fired, that we won 10 in a row, that we beat Gannon 10 straight times to the point after six or eight.
00:39:52.919 –> 00:39:58.519
Manchel: People weren’t really talking about the Gannon Mercyhurst at gaming more because it had flipped.
00:39:58.519 –> 00:40:00.879
Manchel: We were, it wasn’t as competitive.
00:40:00.939 –> 00:40:08.839
Manchel: So people were talking, when people talked about Mercyhurst during that period, it was, what seed could they ever get to host the region?
00:40:08.839 –> 00:40:11.399
Manchel: What seed could they ever get out of the region?
00:40:11.399 –> 00:40:17.599
Manchel: They weren’t focused on, the Mercyhurst Gannon game always sold out because of the students and the community.
00:40:17.599 –> 00:40:24.699
Manchel: But the focus was different because it wasn’t as big of a rival because it wasn’t as competitive.
00:40:24.699 –> 00:40:34.379
Manchel: But in order to get to that spot, you actually have to produce though, Jim, like as opposed to just there’s something that you can say in the media.
00:40:34.379 –> 00:40:37.259
Manchel: There’s something you can say to your administrations.
00:40:37.259 –> 00:40:46.379
Manchel: Until you show that you’re equal, if not better, then it’s hard to actually move on with the bigger picture.
00:40:47.759 –> 00:40:50.779
Manchel: And that’s one of the things all circles back.
00:40:50.779 –> 00:40:56.099
Manchel: When I got the job, I used to say I don’t care what the record was against Gannon.
00:40:56.099 –> 00:41:00.579
Manchel: When they throw the ball up, my expectation is that we win the game.
00:41:00.579 –> 00:41:02.279
Manchel: I don’t care what they have.
00:41:02.279 –> 00:41:04.039
Manchel: I don’t care about their tradition.
00:41:04.039 –> 00:41:13.239
Manchel: And it was one of the top five Division II environments as far as difficulty to win that I’ve ever coached in any of my career.
00:41:13.239 –> 00:41:16.899
Manchel: So, but no one cares.
00:41:16.899 –> 00:41:18.299
Manchel: No one cares what they had.
00:41:18.299 –> 00:41:20.359
Manchel: They just care who won the game.
00:41:20.939 –> 00:41:35.639
Manchel: And I think in order to change that mindset, you actually do have to produce something that people can actually factually look at and say, wow, okay, now let’s worry about something else.
00:41:35.639 –> 00:41:36.419
Roddy: Great.
00:41:36.419 –> 00:41:38.179
Roddy: So, thank you so much for answering that.
00:41:38.179 –> 00:41:43.339
Roddy: I was always curious what your approach was to that because it was so prevalent in Eerie.
00:41:43.339 –> 00:41:47.519
Roddy: And for folks who don’t know, I know maybe it was the last time you played against Gannon.
00:41:47.519 –> 00:41:49.639
Roddy: But I just remember it was the last game of the year for Gannon.
00:41:49.639 –> 00:41:51.959
Roddy: You guys went on 105 to 70.
00:41:51.959 –> 00:41:54.459
Roddy: You beat Gannon by 35 at the Hammer Mill Center.
00:41:54.959 –> 00:41:59.659
Roddy: But I’m glad you know your all-time record against Gannon because I know my all-time record against Mercyhurst.
00:42:00.479 –> 00:42:02.999
Roddy: We played 10 times over 4 years and we were 10-0.
00:42:02.999 –> 00:42:08.259
Roddy: So all those times you were beating up on Gannon, I could always have the last word with my Mercyhurst friend.
00:42:08.259 –> 00:42:09.419
Manchel: And it’s the only…
00:42:09.419 –> 00:42:11.559
Manchel: I’ve been head coach now for 31 years.
00:42:11.559 –> 00:42:19.619
Manchel: And for your listeners, it’s the only time in my career that when I came out at half time, I had something to eat on the bench with the popcorn.
00:42:19.619 –> 00:42:22.579
Manchel: So for people that didn’t know you, Jim, I had…
00:42:22.579 –> 00:42:28.439
Manchel: I usually scouted all the Gannet Games because it was a big game for our community and our administration.
00:42:28.439 –> 00:42:35.099
Manchel: So Jim used to always see me at games and I would joke around with him, hey, you know, I could really go for some popcorn right now, like during the games.
00:42:35.099 –> 00:42:38.239
Manchel: So one of our games, the game was at half time.
00:42:38.239 –> 00:42:45.799
Manchel: And as I walk out on the second half, there’s a bag of popcorn sitting on my seat on the bench because you had put it there.
00:42:45.799 –> 00:42:46.179
Roddy: Sure.
00:42:46.179 –> 00:42:46.739
Roddy: Happy to do it.
00:42:46.779 –> 00:42:49.959
Roddy: It was a coping mechanism, too, because you guys are up by like 17 or something.
00:42:49.959 –> 00:42:51.839
Roddy: So I had to find some humor.
00:42:51.839 –> 00:42:55.439
Roddy: The late great Jim LaCourchic would always sit near him, the color band.
00:42:55.439 –> 00:42:57.159
Roddy: So thank you, Coach.
00:42:57.159 –> 00:42:58.319
Roddy: So thanks for having that memory.
00:42:58.319 –> 00:43:00.559
Roddy: Just a couple last questions for you.
00:43:00.559 –> 00:43:03.099
Roddy: So and it ties in a little bit with the niche.
00:43:03.099 –> 00:43:06.859
Roddy: Like a lot of college basketball programs, they go and emulate other programs.
00:43:06.859 –> 00:43:10.999
Roddy: Like they do the same general things, the same general schemes.
00:43:10.999 –> 00:43:12.699
Roddy: But your approach, again, it’s unusual.
00:43:12.699 –> 00:43:14.399
Roddy: You talk about that that matchup zone.
00:43:16.299 –> 00:43:20.059
Roddy: Can you talk about charting your own path as a coach and as a leader?
00:43:20.059 –> 00:43:27.099
Roddy: My guess is, like you said, when you got into coaching at age 29, you weren’t necessarily ready to be like, I got confidence and I’m going to go do this thing.
00:43:27.099 –> 00:43:30.059
Roddy: Can you talk about as a leader, how do you balance?
00:43:30.059 –> 00:43:37.819
Roddy: Well, this is an industry best practice, and this is something that I think we should do, and it flies in the face or goes against the stream.
00:43:37.819 –> 00:43:41.339
Roddy: Can you talk about that a little bit, making that decision as a leader?
00:43:41.339 –> 00:43:41.619
Manchel: Yeah.
00:43:41.799 –> 00:43:49.459
Manchel: When I was at Yale as an assistant, we would play against Princeton, Pete Carell, who’s in the Hall of Fame, and they were really, really good.
00:43:49.459 –> 00:43:55.939
Manchel: We had to come up with something, the same thing we’ve been talking about, come up with a game plan to make the game even.
00:43:55.939 –> 00:44:06.819
Manchel: I formulated this matchup defense with a combination of man-to-man, the Amoeba defense that was by Jerry Tarkanian at UNOV, and some zone, and we tweaked it.
00:44:06.899 –> 00:44:11.819
Manchel: The nice thing that we had at Yale was they were really, really smart, and we were really successful.
00:44:12.479 –> 00:44:13.499
Manchel: We never won the league.
00:44:13.499 –> 00:44:15.999
Manchel: We came in third the last three years in a row.
00:44:15.999 –> 00:44:19.219
Manchel: I mean, came in second the last three years in a row to Princeton.
00:44:19.219 –> 00:44:23.599
Manchel: So, I think my last year there, we played for the league title.
00:44:23.599 –> 00:44:25.359
Manchel: Back then, they didn’t have playoff.
00:44:26.479 –> 00:44:27.499
Manchel: Don’t conference tournament.
00:44:27.499 –> 00:44:34.159
Manchel: Whoever won the league went to the NCAAs, and we played Princeton the last game of year to go to the NCAAs, and we lost at Princeton.
00:44:34.199 –> 00:44:38.959
Manchel: So, I kind of took that success, and I went to UMass Low as a head coach.
00:44:38.959 –> 00:44:43.999
Manchel: I figured, well, we were so successful at Yale, and I was only assistant.
00:44:43.999 –> 00:44:47.279
Manchel: Now, as a head coach, I can run the show any way I want.
00:44:47.279 –> 00:44:48.619
Manchel: We’re gonna be great defensively.
00:44:48.619 –> 00:44:57.459
Manchel: And I remember my first week of teaching the matchup defense at UMass Low and one of the players was looking at me like, coach, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
00:44:57.459 –> 00:44:59.299
Manchel: Like, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
00:45:00.359 –> 00:45:02.719
Manchel: So, we had to tweak it along the way.
00:45:02.799 –> 00:45:07.119
Manchel: We had, I changed the one we did at Yale, I changed it.
00:45:07.119 –> 00:45:25.699
Manchel: And one of the things I learned over the years is as much as you try to recruit to your system, you’re always going to have to evaluate every single year what your team can and cannot comprehend.
00:45:25.699 –> 00:45:34.379
Manchel: What your team can accomplish and as far as what you think going into the year is going to change throughout the year.
00:45:34.379 –> 00:45:35.839
Manchel: We’re doing this right now.
00:45:35.839 –> 00:45:40.039
Manchel: We don’t feel we have a point guard that’s good enough to win the league.
00:45:40.039 –> 00:45:46.079
Manchel: When we thought we recruited two point guards that were good enough to win the league last year.
00:45:46.079 –> 00:46:07.939
Manchel: So every year that I was a coach, and one thing I’ve learned as far as progression over the years is you go into a fixed idea of what you’re going to be, but you have to be able to change on the fly based on what you actually have and what actually you see.
00:46:07.939 –> 00:46:16.939
Manchel: Sometimes you make mistakes for the worst, sometimes you make mistakes for the better, where this kid is much better than I thought or much smarter than I thought.
00:46:16.939 –> 00:46:28.459
Manchel: So for me, it was having the success at Yale, but then having to change it at UMass Lowell because I had different kids, I had different teams we were competing against.
00:46:28.459 –> 00:46:31.199
Manchel: And the same thing goes for Mercyhurst.
00:46:31.199 –> 00:46:44.219
Manchel: So I think it goes back to once you evaluate what you have every year, based on what your foundation is, you combine those two and you have to adapt.
00:46:44.219 –> 00:46:45.959
Manchel: You’re going to have to adapt.
00:46:45.959 –> 00:46:49.839
Manchel: Sometimes you have to adapt in the middle of the game, sometimes you have to adapt during the season.
00:46:49.839 –> 00:46:56.879
Manchel: But it goes back to having a plan based on what you know is successful, what’s worked in the past.
00:46:57.399 –> 00:47:03.699
Manchel: If it doesn’t work, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
00:47:03.699 –> 00:47:26.819
Manchel: So one of the things that you have to do with being adapted as far as within the season for college basketball is with the Ordo, with the NRL, with having a different roster every single year, you might have to do things that maybe when in the environment you’re in versus one ten years ago.
00:47:26.819 –> 00:47:33.359
Manchel: So I’m always trying to learn and when I watch college basketball, I don’t even enjoy watching college basketball.
00:47:33.359 –> 00:47:35.239
Manchel: I’m always dissecting the game.
00:47:35.239 –> 00:47:36.939
Manchel: Like I’m always like, I like that play.
00:47:36.939 –> 00:47:42.479
Manchel: Well, even in our matchup, I like the way they guard ball screens or I like the way they guard this screen.
00:47:42.479 –> 00:47:45.359
Manchel: So we’re going to incorporate that into our matchup.
00:47:45.359 –> 00:47:54.699
Manchel: There’s not really one coach that I say we’re going to do just like him because he wins because he might have different players, he might have different resources, he might have a different league.
00:47:54.699 –> 00:47:57.219
Manchel: So it’s not apples to apples.
00:47:57.219 –> 00:48:10.299
Manchel: And you can never be someone that can’t learn, but I think you have to learn more about yourself and your team than learn about what other people do.
00:48:10.299 –> 00:48:11.039
Roddy: Yes, yes.
00:48:11.039 –> 00:48:14.539
Roddy: Like you said, because there’s all this sounds like it goes back to critical thinking.
00:48:14.539 –> 00:48:18.559
Roddy: You understand the best practices, but it doesn’t mean that you go and do all that stuff.
00:48:18.559 –> 00:48:25.919
Roddy: The next thing is you have to fully understand the situation and then based on the situation of the best practices, you run the whole blend together.
00:48:25.919 –> 00:48:34.399
Roddy: Before I get to my final question, just in the small world category, so at Gannett, I played for Bob Duquette and Bob Duquette was an assistant to Pete Caril at Princeton.
00:48:34.399 –> 00:48:35.679
Roddy: I never knew that.
00:48:35.679 –> 00:48:42.839
Roddy: We played Princeton style of defense where it was, he called it tough and slough, tough on the ball, everybody else sagging.
00:48:42.839 –> 00:48:44.339
Roddy: It was like a version of the pack line.
00:48:44.339 –> 00:48:45.659
Roddy: I never knew that.
00:48:45.659 –> 00:48:53.099
Roddy: Yeah, and so we could be a real pain in the neck where if they had one guy try to drive around, it was like four guys were there to try to guard him.
00:48:53.099 –> 00:48:56.439
Roddy: Now in the advent of the three pointer, they spread out the floor a little bit.
00:48:56.439 –> 00:49:10.039
Roddy: But yeah, Duke was all, I just read the Pete Carell book and so many things that Duquette said were just taken right from Pete Carell, the smart take from the strong, the strong take from the weak, but the smart take from the strong.
00:49:10.299 –> 00:49:12.679
Roddy: Duquette would talk about that all the time.
00:49:13.159 –> 00:49:20.059
Roddy: My senior year, I could fill in, he would lose track of his thoughts and I would fill in the rest of his stories because I had heard them multiple times.
00:49:22.099 –> 00:49:23.759
Manchel: I’m going to use that, I like that.
00:49:23.759 –> 00:49:25.419
Roddy: Yeah, he was great that way.
00:49:25.419 –> 00:49:36.199
Roddy: So last question for you, Coach Lake, what would be your final words talking to whether it’s a young coach, a new coach or whether it’s talking to a new business leader about change management?
00:49:36.199 –> 00:49:37.319
Roddy: We’ve talked a lot today.
00:49:37.319 –> 00:49:40.079
Roddy: What would be your 60 second, 90 second message to them?
00:49:40.079 –> 00:49:40.539
Manchel: Yeah.
00:49:40.539 –> 00:49:43.039
Manchel: Have an idea what you want to accomplish.
00:49:43.039 –> 00:49:44.739
Manchel: Have a foundation.
00:49:44.739 –> 00:49:46.459
Manchel: Don’t always second guess yourself.
00:49:46.719 –> 00:49:54.379
Manchel: Let it play out a little bit as far as whether or not it’s going to work and whether or not you’re going to be successful.
00:49:54.379 –> 00:49:55.759
Manchel: Rely on other people.
00:49:56.119 –> 00:49:58.939
Manchel: You don’t have yes people around you.
00:49:58.939 –> 00:50:04.899
Manchel: Have people that will challenge you so you get different ideas and different opinions so you go with the best opinion.
00:50:04.899 –> 00:50:19.599
Manchel: But the other thing that combine those three things with the ability to adapt and be self-realization of what you’re good at, what you actually see, and then how you can tweak it along the way to get that a goal that you want to get.
00:50:19.599 –> 00:50:31.059
Manchel: And the last thing I would say is whatever your top goal is, don’t make any decision that doesn’t directly affect accomplishing that goal.
00:50:31.059 –> 00:50:34.339
Manchel: Don’t worry about the stuff that you don’t have to worry about.
00:50:34.339 –> 00:50:40.279
Manchel: Don’t worry about the things that don’t directly influence whatever your top goal is.
00:50:40.279 –> 00:50:43.679
Manchel: For basketball coaches, it usually is wins and losses.
00:50:44.259 –> 00:50:56.499
Manchel: So every decision you make, come back to if we do it this way, will it positively affect accomplishing our goal, which is winning the basketball game?
00:50:56.499 –> 00:50:57.959
Roddy: Very, very well said.
00:50:57.959 –> 00:51:00.179
Roddy: Well, that does it for this episode of The Trusted Advisor.
00:51:00.179 –> 00:51:07.239
Roddy: If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to subscribe to the RSPA YouTube channel and The Trusted Advisor podcast, so you never miss an episode.
00:51:07.239 –> 00:51:11.319
Roddy: Before we go, big thanks again to Coach Gary Manchel for sharing his wisdom with us today.
00:51:11.779 –> 00:51:19.579
Roddy: Thanks also to RSPA Marketing Director, Chris Arnold for his production work, Joseph McDade for our music, and last but not least, thanks so much to you for listening.
00:51:19.579 –> 00:51:26.519
Roddy: Our goal at the RSPA is to accelerate the success of our members in the retail technology ecosystem by providing knowledge and connections.
00:51:26.519 –> 00:51:30.579
Roddy: For more information, please visit our website at gorspa.org.
00:51:30.579 –> 00:51:34.219
Roddy: Thanks for listening and goodbye everybody.
