In Episode 141 of “The Trusted Advisor,” RSPA CEO Jim Roddy sits down with COCARD’s Dan Brattland to discuss leadership communication best practices. Among the topics discussed are how to teach effective communication throughout your organization, how to establish credibility, the importance of preparing and asking questions, and why you should keep your team “in the information loop.”
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Full episode transcript via Apple Podcasts:
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Roddy: Welcome to another episode of The Trusted Advisor podcast and video series, powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
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Roddy: Our goal on the pod is to accelerate the success of today’s and tomorrow’s leaders in the retail IT industry.
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Roddy: I’m Jim Roddy back with you again.
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Roddy: Thank you so much for joining us.
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Roddy: As always, we talk with leaders in the retail IT channel about their leadership journeys, what they’ve learned along the way, and what you can learn from them.
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Roddy: In this episode, we’ll talk with Dan Brattland of Cocard Marketing Group.
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Roddy: Cocard has over 100 member resellers nationwide, generating more than $11 billion in annual volume.
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Roddy: Dan has over 20 years’ experience in the integrated payments and hospitality technology industry.
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Roddy: He’s a frequent speaker at industry events, including RSPA’s own RetailNOW and the Inspire Leadership Conference.
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Roddy: Dan, welcome back to The Trusted Advisor.
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Brattland: Well, it’s really glad to be back here, Jim.
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Brattland: Good to see you again.
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Roddy: Good to see you.
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Roddy: This is Dan’s fourth appearance, and we don’t share all the details and stats, but Dan is one of the download leaders, the YouTube view leaders on the spot, so we’re glad to have you here.
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Roddy: Just so you know, if you come back for a fifth time, we give you a royal blue RSPA smoking jacket.
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Roddy: Wow.
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Brattland: Well, I would love to have one of those.
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Brattland: Kind of like the green jacket at the Masters, I guess.
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Roddy: Very much.
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Roddy: Though some people say this is more prestigious than the green jacket at the Masters.
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Brattland: For sure.
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Roddy: Excellent.
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Roddy: Well, I’m so glad to talk to you as always, and our conversation today is going to focus on communication in the context of leadership.
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Roddy: Before I get to my first question, I’m going to pump you up a little bit here.
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Roddy: You just spoke, we’re recording this three weeks after RetailNOW 2025, where you spoke again.
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Roddy: Here’s some words that folks use to describe you, Dan, as a speaker that I’ve heard.
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Roddy: All right.
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Roddy: Engaging, insightful, relatable, clear, memorable.
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Roddy: I was going to slip fascinating in there, but people who know you and have seen you speak fascinating means like, what the heck is going on?
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Roddy: So again, you’re a very good speaker.
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Roddy: That’s not just my view, that’s the view of our members.
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Roddy: I’m curious if you can share with our audience, how did you develop your communication skills?
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Roddy: So what were the original building blocks?
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Roddy: Then also, what do you do today to keep your communication skills sharp?
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Brattland: Well, that’s a great question.
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Brattland: I think I was somewhat blessed coming out of the womb of being a communicator.
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Brattland: Some of us just have this ability.
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Brattland: I was never afraid to speak in front of people, even in grade school, I was the class clown.
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Brattland: I wasn’t afraid to get up in front and talk and be the center of attention.
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Brattland: So I did have one of those natural God-gifted things, but that in itself can also be a double-edged sword.
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Brattland: When you are an over communicator, like I felt I could have been, I got in trouble a lot, I was in the principal’s office and things like that, it can get you into binds.
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Brattland: You often then find yourself talking over people.
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Brattland: As I get older in high school, maybe interrupting people mid-sentence, trying to top their story.
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Brattland: We always run into these communicators that you’re telling the story, you’re telling the joke and right when you finish, they can’t wait to tell you their story or their joke.
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Brattland: I call them toppers.
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Brattland: So I wouldn’t call myself an effective communicator.
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Brattland: It wasn’t until I got into personal and professional development, which was my first business coming out of high school, I promoted speakers, trainers, I sold tickets and I started listening to a lot of this stuff.
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Brattland: My first book I read on communication skills was actually a leadership book.
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Brattland: It was called The One Minute Manager, Ken Blanchard.
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Brattland: What I learned was effective communicators aren’t big talkers, they’re actually effective listeners.
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Brattland: So I had to go from a overly fast thinking.
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Brattland: I had some issues like ADD and stuff, so I was always thinking ahead and wanting to talk fast, like I’m talking now, obviously.
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Brattland: But I had to slow down and actually become an effective listener, and that really changed, I think, how I came across to others.
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Brattland: As I developed my business and taking on more leadership roles, I took pride in not just being a good talker, but communication is a two-way street.
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Brattland: I really had to become an effective communicator, thus becoming an effective listener.
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Brattland: I basically learned some of these techniques, like the One-Minute Manager.
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Brattland: One of the things I learned is reprimand in private, appraise in public.
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Brattland: That was just a simple thing that sticks with me today as I lead and communicate.
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Brattland: Nito Kubin was another mentor of mine.
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Brattland: He had a book on how to be a great communicator.
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Brattland: Another book, obviously, How to Win Friends and Influence People was probably one of the biggest impactful books that I ever read of Dale Carnegie.
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Brattland: Really going and diving into the material that’s out there, and I just named a few things that were out there back in the 1980s.
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Brattland: I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff out there.
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Brattland: I would always encourage people, and I got that foundation at a young age, especially if you’re listening to this, whether you’re 20 or 50, it’s never too late to pick up some information and learn how to become an effective communicator.
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Brattland: Not just a good communicator, but an effective which encompasses listening skills.
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Roddy: Yeah.
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Brattland: I was fortunate how to build that foundation at a young age which helped me throughout my career.
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Roddy: Yes.
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Roddy: It sounds like you had the natural ability to use some of those educational resources to channel it.
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Roddy: One thing, like you mentioned, the one-minute manager, there’s a lot in there about being clear and being succinct.
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Roddy: If you say a thousand words and you think they’re the greatest words, they could get lost, but if you’re able to really hone that down.
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Roddy: Dan, what do you do today?
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Roddy: That was early, now you’re a skilled communicator, you’re getting pats on the back, you’ve had a lot of success.
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Roddy: What do you do today to make sure that you stay sharp as a communicator and as a leader?
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Brattland: Well, I would say the good thing about keeping your skills sharp when it comes to communication is that we have the opportunity to practice, not just in the workplace, but at home.
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Brattland: As my kids develop from having to have to communicate them in their adolescent ages, in school, then when they’re adults, I have four adult children now in their 20s, so your communication styles need to change as you communicate.
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Brattland: I have an opportunity to practice in the office and practice my communication skills at home and how you communicate.
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Brattland: Because what I found is effective communicators in a leadership role in business tend to be effective communicators as parents or let’s say coaches.
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Brattland: I take the opportunity outside of the workplace every day to say, how am I taking in information?
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Brattland: Effective communicators don’t react.
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Brattland: We have so many opportunities to react to whatever situation, knee-jerk and breathe and take information in and look for, like I say, look for the good or use that word fascination instead of frustration.
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Brattland: So I have an opportunity to practice those because you communicate how you feel and you can’t fake it.
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Brattland: So if I feel frustrated, I’m not a very good communicator.
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Brattland: And so I practice these things like that word fascination versus frustration in my brain.
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Brattland: Whenever I feel frustrated, they just say, well, fascinated, fascinated.
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Brattland: And it just gives me a different perspective and allows me to take in information and be a listener.
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Brattland: So we all have the ability to practice and perfect our communication skills each and every day.
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Roddy: That’s right.
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Roddy: That’s right.
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Roddy: And so talk about how do you teach, again, others in your organization, other leaders, your kids, right, to communicate effectively, but do it in their own style, right?
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Roddy: Anybody like I’m smiling as I’m listening to Dan, right?
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Roddy: Because you and a guy I’ve been seeing you speak over the years and you have your own unique style to it.
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Roddy: But if I would get up there in front of everybody and start talking exactly like you did, hey, let me tell you about frustration versus fascination.
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Roddy: I’d be like, you’re just ripping off Dan Brattland.
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Roddy: So how do you train people on communication best practices without having them just be a carbon copy of you?
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Brattland: I basically tell them or train them or explain that, don’t try to be me, don’t try to be somebody else.
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Brattland: You have to be true to yourself because effective communicators come in all different shapes and sizes.
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Brattland: If you look at coaching styles, you like sports, you have the coach that is, so they call them a players coach.
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Brattland: They’re a big talker communicator.
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Brattland: Then you have these coaches that don’t say a lot of words.
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Brattland: But how are they able to get results and get, they’re just not big talkers.
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Brattland: But what they have is respect.
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Brattland: They have respect from other people because once you go outside of your own comfort and try to be somebody or not, you then become a phony.
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Brattland: People read phony leaders.
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Brattland: If they’re one way in public, let’s say they’re one way at the office, but you know at home they’re a different way or they’re one way out.
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Brattland: Effective communicators are basically transparent.
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Brattland: They are transparent to the effect where you just need to be who you are, and people will respond to that.
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Brattland: If you’re not a big talker, fast talker, you don’t have to be.
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Brattland: You just have to be an effective listener and being able to coach somebody.
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Brattland: So, and that as a leader, you do have to also understand that there are people around you that like to be led in a different manner.
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Brattland: So, you do sometimes have to communicate differently with each individual, let’s say on your team.
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Brattland: A good coach would know what motivates this player, maybe it’s discipline, talking in a certain way versus this player that needs a lot of appraisal, a lot of encouragement.
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Brattland: So, have the ability to adapt your communication, but keep your style true to yourself.
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Brattland: Don’t try to be somebody you’re not.
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Roddy: Yeah, I’m actually reading a book right now on Phil Jackson, the legendary Bulls and Lakers, a coach who won 11 NBA titles as a coach.
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Roddy: As I’m reading him, I’m like, wow, he is way different from your normal coach.
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Roddy: He’s one more hands-off and lets all be a harmonious ecosystem.
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Roddy: He’s not so much a screamer and yeller.
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Roddy: I’m like, yes, I resonate with that.
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Roddy: But then the way that he does it is like, I have incense at our first meeting and we talk about the Lakota tribe.
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Roddy: I’m thinking, I can do that.
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Roddy: I’m not sure what that is.
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Roddy: So it sounds like I share the outcome with him, but I wouldn’t as a basketball coach or as a leader in any way, try to follow that or also would look really phony.
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Roddy: Is that what you’re saying?
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Roddy: The outcomes can be the same, but everybody has to find their own unique path and stay true to yourself in order to get to that unique path, if I’m understanding what you’re saying.
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Brattland: Absolutely.
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Brattland: The other trait I try to pass on is, is as you take more of a leadership role or management and leading other people, is to always take responsibility.
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Brattland: What I mean by responsibility is, is if somebody in my organization isn’t doing something that I think they should be doing the right way.
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Brattland: I always ask, what’s the question behind the question?
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Brattland: The question behind the question is, what have I done to not communicate properly to that person?
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Brattland: Whether it be training, when I interviewed them, did I not ask the right questions to understand?
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Brattland: They knew the role that they were in.
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Brattland: When you always put a good communicators and good leaders, always puts the burden on their shoulders and never places blame on anybody else.
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Brattland: It’s always, what can I do or what didn’t I do?
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Brattland: What could I have done differently?
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Brattland: What did I learn from this?
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Brattland: Maybe I didn’t explain to this and maybe I didn’t give you enough training.
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Brattland: So I understand you didn’t do this or you didn’t do that, or this customer said this and this customer said this.
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Brattland: So let’s sit down because I take responsibility for making sure that you have enough knowledge and training so that this doesn’t happen again.
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Brattland: So we can’t have this happen again.
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Brattland: So I think taking responsibility is critical.
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Roddy: Yeah.
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Roddy: The first question, instead of what’s wrong with that, no good, low down, whatever it’s, what am I doing to potentially cause this behavior?
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Roddy: So Dan, I’m going to give you, I’m going to encourage you to be a topper here.
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Roddy: Because what I’m going to do is I’m going to share with you one of my biggest communication mistakes ever, that I’d be honest with, I’ve never ever shared publicly, and then what I learned from it, and I’m hoping you can do the same.
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Roddy: So you’re okay with that?
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Roddy: I’ll go first and then you can go.
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Roddy: All right.
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Roddy: So this is back, I was 22 years old.
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Roddy: I was going to college.
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Roddy: I was actually playing college basketball.
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Roddy: I was also working for the local pro basketball team as well.
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Roddy: It was called the Eerie Wave, folks on YouTube might be able to see over my shoulder, the Eerie Wave uniform back there.
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Roddy: So I was the PR director back then.
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Roddy: So a local high school team had their sports banquet.
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Roddy: They wanted a player or coaches to come out and speak.
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Roddy: Well, the players weren’t in town yet.
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Roddy: So the general manager said, hey, we’ll have the coach and some of the staff come out and speak.
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Roddy: So he had me go out there and be one of the speakers, and I was talking about the importance of doing your best versus just winning.
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Roddy: And so I worked in an anecdote and I said, we’re playing this team, District of Columbia, they were awful.
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Roddy: They were like three and 23, just like a brutal, terrible team.
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Roddy: Well, as I was saying that, I noticed kids, instead of looking, they’re starting to look up and look around.
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Roddy: I thought, well, I guess everybody’s paying attention.
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Roddy: But I said, we won the game, we didn’t play our best.
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Roddy: And then we get done with the speakers, everybody gets up there to give their words.
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Roddy: The boys coach gets up there and he says, well, Jim, I want you to know our season, we were three and 23, but we were not awful.
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Roddy: And I just remember sitting there, like even telling you right now, Dan, like my nerves are going, I was sweating sitting, I just wanted to crawl into the table, I just wanted to disappear.
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Roddy: I was like, this thing cannot end, I couldn’t get out there soon enough.
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Roddy: But what that taught me is, do your research before you go in.
00:15:05.755 –> 00:15:11.375
Roddy: And I probably over prepare now when I’m communicating to make sure I find out more details.
00:15:11.375 –> 00:15:16.915
Roddy: Because man, did I step in it and I thought, I don’t want to ever go and speak again whatsoever.
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Roddy: So again, that is the first time I’ve ever publicly shared that story.
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Roddy: That was 1992.
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Roddy: And so that tells you I am still scarred from doing that.
00:15:25.535 –> 00:15:31.815
Roddy: So that leads me to Dan, can you share a communication mistake that you made and what you learned from it, please?
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Brattland: Well, I’m not going to go, in fact, I won’t go that far back, but I’ll just do something.
00:15:37.555 –> 00:15:40.215
Brattland: I just came to mind here recently this last week.
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Roddy: Okay.
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Brattland: We had a, in a real life situation, we had one of our largest accounts, we were moving them to a new processing relationship.
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Brattland: And my gal who has the clients, fairly large client, we’re moving over with one of our largest banks.
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Brattland: And it had to do with underwriting, you know, it’s kind of a high ticket, I’m not going to go into detail, but we send it to this new relationship and they come back, say, oh, we can’t get it approved, we need this financials and everything else.
00:16:10.575 –> 00:16:15.875
Brattland: And I knew they had another relationship with a company that could get it approved.
00:16:15.875 –> 00:16:22.475
Brattland: I said, well, why don’t we just, can you get it approved through what is called their retail channel?
00:16:22.475 –> 00:16:27.515
Brattland: And but I didn’t ask enough question, they communicated, they just said, well, let’s give it a try and it got approved.
00:16:27.515 –> 00:16:29.635
Brattland: And lo and behold, I thought it was over.
00:16:29.635 –> 00:16:40.015
Brattland: Well, I get a notice yesterday saying, you know, that there’s a security hole, it’s 130,000, this merchant hasn’t been paid for two weeks, they got $130,000.
00:16:40.015 –> 00:16:41.335
Brattland: What happened?
00:16:41.335 –> 00:16:42.155
Brattland: Why would we do this?
00:16:42.155 –> 00:16:51.935
Brattland: Well, you didn’t tell me, you know, I knew they get approved, but under this channel, they get approved them, but if it’s a high ticket, whatever, they’re going to ask for all this stuff and they’re going to have a security hole.
00:16:51.935 –> 00:16:57.035
Brattland: I go, why didn’t you tell, and my initial reaction is, why didn’t you tell me that upfront?
00:16:57.035 –> 00:16:59.235
Brattland: But then why, I didn’t ask the right question.
00:16:59.235 –> 00:17:00.415
Brattland: I didn’t communicate them.
00:17:01.715 –> 00:17:06.695
Brattland: I didn’t tell them, hey, we can’t risk this going to the second phase.
00:17:06.695 –> 00:17:10.975
Brattland: Then he goes, well, if you would have told me that, then I would have told you, no, let’s not send it here.
00:17:12.515 –> 00:17:18.955
Brattland: So by not explaining the outcome, the end result, I just say, hey, if we can get it approved, get it approved.
00:17:18.955 –> 00:17:21.175
Brattland: But I want to make sure this doesn’t happen.
00:17:21.175 –> 00:17:23.595
Brattland: Again, taking responsibility.
00:17:23.935 –> 00:17:25.515
Brattland: I didn’t blame them.
00:17:25.515 –> 00:17:27.335
Brattland: Oh, how could you do this?
00:17:27.335 –> 00:17:29.295
Brattland: They need their money back, you’re old and this is secure.
00:17:29.295 –> 00:17:30.475
Brattland: That’s just their policy.
00:17:30.475 –> 00:17:33.475
Brattland: I just say, no, that’s on us.
00:17:33.475 –> 00:17:36.615
Brattland: We didn’t communicate enough.
00:17:36.615 –> 00:17:41.395
Brattland: So that causes you to always come back to you.
00:17:41.395 –> 00:17:42.895
Brattland: What did we learn?
00:17:42.895 –> 00:17:46.695
Brattland: What did I learn from that situation when it comes to communication?
00:17:47.755 –> 00:17:51.795
Roddy: Yes, and then figuring out how can we make sure we don’t do this again.
00:17:51.795 –> 00:17:53.395
Roddy: That’s what it sounds like going forward.
00:17:53.395 –> 00:17:55.835
Roddy: It sounds like you’re introspective on a lot of this stuff.
00:17:57.235 –> 00:18:04.015
Roddy: I shared all those complements for you as a speaker, but it sounds like, and I guess, can you talk about that, the importance of being introspective as a leader?
00:18:04.015 –> 00:18:07.635
Roddy: That seems like it’s really what drives you to get better.
00:18:07.635 –> 00:18:08.755
Brattland: I think it’s number one.
00:18:08.755 –> 00:18:18.715
Brattland: I think when you always, what I call ask the question behind the question or take on responsibility, or the buck stops here, what could I have done differently?
00:18:20.215 –> 00:18:27.895
Brattland: Why always taking responsibility is, I think, the number one trait of effective leadership.
00:18:27.895 –> 00:18:32.035
Brattland: Because it does cause you, and it takes the pressure off.
00:18:32.035 –> 00:18:36.675
Brattland: I like having the pressure on me and not putting blame on other people.
00:18:36.675 –> 00:18:45.575
Brattland: Because then if I think somebody else is at fault, it causes you to become angry towards that person or look at that person.
00:18:47.055 –> 00:19:00.195
Brattland: When you accept responsibility, even if technically it’s not my fault, I didn’t go out and do this and this, they made a decision, but I’m the person that hired this person, I’m the person that have this on my team.
00:19:00.195 –> 00:19:03.175
Brattland: Obviously, they don’t know how important it is.
00:19:03.175 –> 00:19:11.535
Brattland: So I think that taking on responsibility is the number one key trait of being an effective leader.
00:19:12.475 –> 00:19:19.015
Roddy: Yeah, my old boss said, even if you’re just 1% responsible for what went wrong, you take responsibility, right?
00:19:19.015 –> 00:19:22.335
Roddy: There’s no downside to over-correcting on it.
00:19:22.655 –> 00:19:28.775
Roddy: So Dan, I’m going to ask you more about communication strategies, but before we move on, thanks for sharing your communication mistake.
00:19:28.775 –> 00:19:40.315
Roddy: Again, anybody from the Northwestern High School who attended the 1992 basketball banquet in Albion, Pennsylvania, my apologies for stepping in and indirectly calling your team awful.
00:19:40.995 –> 00:19:41.315
Roddy: All right.
00:19:41.315 –> 00:19:44.095
Roddy: So let’s talk communication strategies and tactics.
00:19:44.095 –> 00:19:48.035
Roddy: You mentioned several of them during your RetailNOW 2025 presentation.
00:19:48.035 –> 00:19:51.455
Roddy: So you listed eight steps to a powerful presentation.
00:19:51.455 –> 00:19:54.655
Roddy: I want to pull out some of those steps and have you expand on some of those.
00:19:54.655 –> 00:19:58.915
Roddy: So step number one was establish credibility and trust.
00:19:58.915 –> 00:20:06.055
Roddy: So what do you see is the most effective way to communicate that, and it’s not the old, come on, you can trust me, look at me.
00:20:06.055 –> 00:20:08.355
Roddy: So how do you establish credibility and trust with somebody?
00:20:09.215 –> 00:20:11.055
Brattland: Well, this one’s the easiest.
00:20:11.055 –> 00:20:13.515
Brattland: It’s not difficult.
00:20:13.515 –> 00:20:17.835
Brattland: All you have to do is tell the truth when you go in and talk to a person.
00:20:17.835 –> 00:20:35.315
Brattland: Prospects can tell, again, when somebody is phony or painting a bright picture, just explain who you are, who your company is, how long you’ve been around, how many customers you serve.
00:20:36.255 –> 00:20:39.835
Brattland: I like to show pictures of our office, a building.
00:20:40.275 –> 00:20:46.715
Brattland: If I have a new sales rep, I want that sales rep to go in and say, hey, I’m brand new.
00:20:46.715 –> 00:20:51.835
Brattland: Being transparent builds credibility in the customer’s eyes.
00:20:52.675 –> 00:20:55.355
Brattland: Don’t try to be somebody you’re not.
00:20:55.355 –> 00:20:59.115
Brattland: Building credibility and trust is simply going in.
00:20:59.115 –> 00:21:08.655
Brattland: Jim, before I get into my demonstration here, why don’t I just tell you a little bit about who we are and what we do and answer any questions you might have?
00:21:08.655 –> 00:21:09.735
Brattland: Does that sound good?
00:21:09.915 –> 00:21:12.655
Brattland: Well, let me tell you a little bit about our company.
00:21:12.655 –> 00:21:15.175
Brattland: We started the company back in 1999.
00:21:15.175 –> 00:21:18.075
Brattland: We’ve actually been around for about 20 years.
00:21:18.075 –> 00:21:25.295
Brattland: The good news is we have right now established over 500 similar companies like you in this area that we service.
00:21:25.295 –> 00:21:31.135
Brattland: We do that and just go on and explain how long you’ve been around, who let you do.
00:21:31.135 –> 00:21:38.255
Brattland: Then if you’re a brand new company, when I didn’t have anything, I relied on, I’m a reseller.
00:21:38.735 –> 00:21:43.615
Brattland: Whatever I’m reselling, I also focus in on their credibility.
00:21:43.615 –> 00:21:47.895
Brattland: My first product was a product called Dinerware, and I was brand new.
00:21:47.895 –> 00:21:55.255
Brattland: I never sold point of sale software, but I had to go out to my first few restaurants and try to build credibility.
00:21:55.915 –> 00:22:03.535
Brattland: Now my company, I come from the card side, so I’ve been in business for a while, but I spent focus talking about Dinerware’s credibility.
00:22:03.535 –> 00:22:07.435
Brattland: Now Dinerware started back, and their focus was in restaurants.
00:22:07.435 –> 00:22:13.875
Brattland: In fact, the founder was a chef, and so I built credibility into the resellers.
00:22:13.875 –> 00:22:24.255
Brattland: So find out where the most credible aspects are of whatever you’re selling or your business, and simply explain it, let the person know.
00:22:24.855 –> 00:22:30.995
Brattland: You always do this before you start asking questions about their business.
00:22:32.535 –> 00:22:32.855
Roddy: Got it.
00:22:33.175 –> 00:22:40.595
Roddy: So you do that because you establish our credibility first, so then it makes them a little bit more open, and you’ve got your credibility established.
00:22:40.595 –> 00:22:41.375
Roddy: Is that what you’re saying?
00:22:41.375 –> 00:22:43.115
Roddy: You’ve got to establish that from the get go.
00:22:43.115 –> 00:22:53.715
Brattland: When salespeople come in to tell me stuff in my office, and they come into my office and start asking me everything about how much money I make, how many employees I have, things about me and my business.
00:22:53.955 –> 00:22:56.715
Brattland: I don’t know, who are you?
00:22:56.715 –> 00:23:06.035
Brattland: But I’m much more apt to give them those answers if they open up their lingerie drawer before they look into mine.
00:23:06.035 –> 00:23:11.995
Roddy: Yes, I remember prospecting at a trade show one time and asking the person, I want to learn more about your product and how you go to market.
00:23:11.995 –> 00:23:15.415
Roddy: And he’s like, why would I tell you how we’re going to go to market?
00:23:15.415 –> 00:23:17.895
Roddy: I’m like, oh, let me explain where I’m from.
00:23:17.895 –> 00:23:21.695
Roddy: Again, with an independent association, things of that nature, like, okay, I get that.
00:23:21.695 –> 00:23:24.355
Roddy: So yeah, you got to get the credibility first.
00:23:24.355 –> 00:23:33.575
Roddy: So, and one way, if we can pause for a quick commercial break, to build credibility is to be a member of the RSPA, the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:23:33.575 –> 00:23:36.555
Roddy: It’s North America’s, I’m building up the credibility of the RSPA.
00:23:36.555 –> 00:23:41.855
Roddy: North America’s largest community of retail technology, VARs, software providers, vendors, and distributors.
00:23:41.855 –> 00:23:47.515
Roddy: To accelerate your success for an RSPA membership, email membership at gorspa.org.
00:23:47.875 –> 00:23:53.015
Roddy: Also, thanks to these companies who support the RSPA community and make this podcast and video series possible.
00:23:53.015 –> 00:24:02.775
Roddy: Our Platinum sponsors, Blue Star, our Gold sponsors, our Epson, Heartland ScanSource, and organization you might be familiar with, Cocard.
00:24:02.775 –> 00:24:05.335
Roddy: Thank you for your support of the RSPA.
00:24:05.335 –> 00:24:12.155
Roddy: Finally, make sure you save the date for Inspire 2026, the Retail IT Channel’s premier leadership conference.
00:24:12.175 –> 00:24:16.835
Roddy: RSPA Inspire is set for February 1st through 4th on the island of Kauai in Hawaii.
00:24:17.155 –> 00:24:24.415
Roddy: For more information, visit gorsp.org/inspire, so you can experience networking nirvana.
00:24:24.415 –> 00:24:24.795
Roddy: All right.
00:24:24.795 –> 00:24:28.295
Roddy: So we said step number one was establish credibility and trust.
00:24:28.295 –> 00:24:30.355
Roddy: Step two is questions.
00:24:30.355 –> 00:24:31.575
Roddy: Understand the pain.
00:24:31.575 –> 00:24:36.355
Roddy: So I’m curious, Dan, like do you plan tailored questions in advance?
00:24:36.355 –> 00:24:40.815
Roddy: Do you have a list of standard questions that you typically draw from based on your experience?
00:24:40.815 –> 00:24:45.775
Roddy: Or are you at the point now you can just read the situation rack with questions developed in the moment?
00:24:45.855 –> 00:24:46.895
Roddy: What do you do?
00:24:46.895 –> 00:24:49.895
Roddy: And I’m also curious, what would you recommend to our audience?
00:24:51.235 –> 00:24:53.095
Brattland: Planned questions.
00:24:54.495 –> 00:25:11.355
Brattland: Now, you may expand on a couple of them if you get off, but you should know whichever niche you’re in, whatever target market you’re selling to, what are the common questions that you want to ask?
00:25:13.275 –> 00:25:26.115
Brattland: And some of them might be when it comes to their product, you know, tell me a little bit about your current program today, you know, your current software, whatever it is, you know, what do you like most about it?
00:25:26.115 –> 00:25:29.775
Brattland: You know, and if you had to change anything about it, what would that be?
00:25:29.775 –> 00:25:32.435
Brattland: That could be for any one of your prospects.
00:25:32.435 –> 00:25:38.175
Brattland: We also like to ask questions to learn a little bit more about the decision making process.
00:25:39.935 –> 00:25:45.895
Brattland: Who besides yourself would make the final decision when it comes to something like this?
00:25:45.895 –> 00:25:51.735
Brattland: You know, I always like the first question out of the gate is, you know, tell me a little bit about your company.
00:25:51.735 –> 00:25:53.155
Brattland: I know I’ve been on your website.
00:25:53.155 –> 00:25:57.455
Brattland: I know what you do here, but Jim, tell me, how did you start this business?
00:25:57.455 –> 00:26:00.255
Brattland: Tell me, you know, tell me how long have you been around?
00:26:00.255 –> 00:26:02.275
Brattland: How did you get into this business in the first place?
00:26:02.315 –> 00:26:06.515
Brattland: And sit back and listen, because now you’re building relationship skills.
00:26:06.675 –> 00:26:10.815
Brattland: When it comes to building that trust and credibility, you want to build rapport.
00:26:10.815 –> 00:26:26.015
Brattland: So if you’re sincerely curious about how people started a business, you know, I’m fascinated by entrepreneurs or people that took over their parents’ business and turned it into something else.
00:26:26.015 –> 00:26:37.275
Brattland: It’s really interesting being in the profession we’re in, that we get to go out and visit with all these independent business owners and figure out, I’m just curious, how did you get into this business?
00:26:37.275 –> 00:26:38.555
Brattland: Tell me a little bit about that.
00:26:38.855 –> 00:26:41.035
Brattland: It has nothing to do with me selling you anything.
00:26:41.035 –> 00:26:42.255
Brattland: That’s building rapport.
00:26:42.255 –> 00:26:44.815
Brattland: So that’s kind of one of the first questions out of the gate.
00:26:44.815 –> 00:26:45.215
Roddy: Oh, really?
00:26:45.215 –> 00:26:46.855
Brattland: So right now, you have you built this.
00:26:46.855 –> 00:26:48.195
Brattland: So how many employees do you have?
00:26:48.195 –> 00:26:48.375
Brattland: Okay.
00:26:48.375 –> 00:26:49.675
Brattland: How many tables?
00:26:49.675 –> 00:26:51.095
Brattland: So right now you have how many stations?
00:26:51.095 –> 00:26:56.695
Brattland: Then get into the detail, you know, of some of those detailed questions, but build that rapport right out of the gate.
00:26:57.655 –> 00:26:57.835
Roddy: Yeah.
00:26:57.835 –> 00:27:06.215
Roddy: And it seems like there’s seeking to understand, not seeking to understand just for the sole intent of selling them, right?
00:27:06.215 –> 00:27:08.235
Roddy: Having genuine curiosity.
00:27:08.235 –> 00:27:09.895
Brattland: Genuine and listening skills.
00:27:09.895 –> 00:27:12.495
Brattland: See, there’s two things I recommend when it comes to asking questions.
00:27:12.495 –> 00:27:15.095
Brattland: You just can’t be a robot and have these written down questions.
00:27:15.095 –> 00:27:18.575
Brattland: You open up your thing, go, now, Jim, how much revenue do you do every year?
00:27:18.575 –> 00:27:22.075
Brattland: And how many employees do you have?
00:27:22.075 –> 00:27:23.095
Brattland: I use two things.
00:27:23.275 –> 00:27:29.315
Brattland: I use what is called bridges in the beginning, and then listening skills at the end of each question.
00:27:29.315 –> 00:27:39.375
Brattland: Bridges are, Jim, let me ask you this, or Jim, I’m curious, or do you mind if I ask?
00:27:39.375 –> 00:27:41.835
Brattland: So those are bridges in between each questions.
00:27:41.835 –> 00:27:49.895
Brattland: Oh, but before that, at the end of the questions, I always go, I’m always nodding whenever they’re talking, you’re looking them straight in the eye.
00:27:49.895 –> 00:27:50.635
Brattland: That’s the other thing.
00:27:50.635 –> 00:27:57.015
Brattland: You’ve got to look them straight in the eye, listening skills, nodding your head and taking in their information.
00:27:57.015 –> 00:27:58.975
Brattland: Ah, yeah, got it.
00:27:58.975 –> 00:28:00.255
Brattland: I understand.
00:28:00.255 –> 00:28:02.435
Brattland: Okay, okay, I hear you.
00:28:02.435 –> 00:28:03.895
Brattland: Oh, interesting.
00:28:03.895 –> 00:28:04.835
Roddy: Oh, wow.
00:28:04.835 –> 00:28:05.415
Brattland: Okay, great.
00:28:05.415 –> 00:28:08.075
Brattland: Well, Jim, let me ask you this.
00:28:08.075 –> 00:28:12.315
Brattland: So those are all listening skills that they know you’re taking in the information.
00:28:12.315 –> 00:28:20.515
Brattland: And then even though I know what questions I’m going to ask, I’m curious, Jim, how did you get started in this business anyway?
00:28:20.675 –> 00:28:24.455
Brattland: So I was using that those are communication skills.
00:28:24.455 –> 00:28:29.875
Brattland: Those are effective communications, listening skills, taking in their information.
00:28:29.875 –> 00:28:32.975
Brattland: Don’t jump in and ask the question right when they’re done asking.
00:28:32.975 –> 00:28:34.275
Brattland: Oh, wow.
00:28:34.275 –> 00:28:35.515
Brattland: Wow, that’s fascinating.
00:28:35.515 –> 00:28:36.295
Brattland: Interesting.
00:28:36.295 –> 00:28:37.435
Brattland: Very interesting.
00:28:37.435 –> 00:28:39.935
Brattland: Well, let me ask you this, Jim.
00:28:40.775 –> 00:28:43.435
Brattland: How many total employees do you currently have here?
00:28:43.435 –> 00:28:48.875
Brattland: So those are all part of the whole effective communication skill building.
00:28:50.075 –> 00:28:53.815
Roddy: Yeah, I call that, so like I train people on moderating panels and things like that.
00:28:53.815 –> 00:28:57.975
Roddy: So I talk about high school moderation, or you’re talking about like high school sales.
00:28:57.975 –> 00:29:02.295
Roddy: My first question is, tell me about your business.
00:29:02.295 –> 00:29:10.435
Roddy: And then no matter what the person says, my next question is, right, it sounds like you’re saying you’ve got to be able to have that genuine curiosity and pick up on their cues.
00:29:10.435 –> 00:29:15.935
Roddy: And if they say something that’s interesting, then you’re going to go chase that down to make it conversational.
00:29:15.935 –> 00:29:20.895
Roddy: That’s what it sounds like is, is a big part of leadership isn’t just asking the right questions or saying the right things.
00:29:20.895 –> 00:29:25.895
Roddy: It really is that how you’re saying in the report that you build with somebody from understanding that correctly.
00:29:25.895 –> 00:29:33.095
Brattland: And Jim, if you do that, you find yourself actually learning about other people’s business and liking your job so much better.
00:29:33.095 –> 00:29:37.435
Brattland: People ask me when I was out in the field doing sales, what do you like most about your job?
00:29:37.435 –> 00:29:45.295
Brattland: I go, I love learning about how all these other businesses operate, how they got started, how they built their business.
00:29:46.015 –> 00:29:47.895
Brattland: That, to me, is gratifying.
00:29:48.515 –> 00:29:58.875
Brattland: It’s sincere curiosity, and I get to learn all these different types of businesses and how they survived in this crazy world we have, competitive world.
00:29:58.875 –> 00:30:01.455
Roddy: Yeah, and you realize it’s not a linear path.
00:30:01.455 –> 00:30:04.675
Roddy: A lot of people, it’s not like I went to school for this and then I got into this.
00:30:04.675 –> 00:30:10.955
Roddy: It’s somehow the shoehorned or serendipity really found them is what it sounds like.
00:30:10.955 –> 00:30:11.635
Roddy: That’s very good.
00:30:11.635 –> 00:30:11.895
Roddy: All right.
00:30:12.015 –> 00:30:18.055
Roddy: So the final step that you have in your process is the next step close.
00:30:18.055 –> 00:30:22.415
Roddy: And so I guess I’ll share with you from folks who are like, what do you mean by next step close?
00:30:22.415 –> 00:30:25.375
Roddy: The RSPA has adopted your next step close.
00:30:25.375 –> 00:30:30.015
Roddy: Dan, we’ve been talking about with John Greger, our Business Development Director, we’re testing it out.
00:30:30.015 –> 00:30:32.335
Roddy: And so the next step close would be at the end of the conversation.
00:30:32.335 –> 00:30:33.995
Roddy: Here’s the RSPA’s version.
00:30:33.995 –> 00:30:38.935
Roddy: Let me tell you what the next step is if you’re considering joining the RSPA, which it appears that you are.
00:30:38.935 –> 00:30:40.735
Roddy: You can fill out a membership application.
00:30:40.895 –> 00:30:43.075
Roddy: It would take you maybe five minutes on your end.
00:30:43.075 –> 00:30:45.275
Roddy: Why don’t we at least get that started?
00:30:45.275 –> 00:30:46.095
Roddy: Is that fair?
00:30:46.095 –> 00:30:49.855
Roddy: So I guess judge me on our next step.
00:30:49.855 –> 00:30:51.775
Brattland: You nailed it.
00:30:52.855 –> 00:30:54.615
Brattland: You’re a great learner.
00:30:54.615 –> 00:30:55.055
Roddy: Well, thank you.
00:30:55.055 –> 00:30:58.775
Roddy: I was taking notes feverishly when you’re talking at RetailNOW.
00:30:58.775 –> 00:31:01.935
Roddy: So that is our next step close that we’re trying out.
00:31:01.935 –> 00:31:07.095
Roddy: And because we do a lot of these video, we’re able to just drop the link into the chat and go, here it is.
00:31:07.095 –> 00:31:08.035
Roddy: Here’s the application.
00:31:08.035 –> 00:31:09.155
Roddy: You click on that, you’ve got it.
00:31:09.155 –> 00:31:10.475
Roddy: You just send that on over to us.
00:31:10.575 –> 00:31:13.115
Roddy: So talk about, that’s how you do it.
00:31:13.115 –> 00:31:16.775
Roddy: Can you share with our audience the importance of that, right?
00:31:16.775 –> 00:31:22.175
Roddy: Clarifying at the end of the conversation where everything stands and then agreeing on how it’s going to move forward.
00:31:22.195 –> 00:31:24.595
Brattland: Yes.
00:31:24.595 –> 00:31:31.275
Brattland: Back when I was first trained in sales by a gentleman by the name of Tom Hopkins, he wrote the book, How to Master Sales.
00:31:31.275 –> 00:31:39.395
Brattland: There was a lot of different, what they call closing techniques and closing the sale.
00:31:40.655 –> 00:31:52.395
Brattland: A lot of them are somewhat manipulative, but what I learned over the years of becoming more of a consultative sales approach and combining a lot of those skills of questioning skills, a lot of them were just asking questions.
00:31:52.395 –> 00:32:08.675
Brattland: But when it comes down to closing the sale, it really made it simple when I learned one close that you can use pretty much in every product, every service, no matter what you’re doing, and it really is not, I don’t even like to call it a close.
00:32:10.155 –> 00:32:16.275
Brattland: What it is is at the end of every presentation, what we get into is we have the fear.
00:32:16.855 –> 00:32:23.535
Brattland: The fear is the prospect is afraid of making a decision that backfires.
00:32:24.055 –> 00:32:27.195
Brattland: We’ve all made purchase decisions that we regret.
00:32:27.195 –> 00:32:34.755
Brattland: So they have this fear of making a bad decision, and they also don’t know how to buy.
00:32:36.355 –> 00:32:43.895
Brattland: We have a salesperson who’s afraid of losing the sale, or afraid of them saying no, and they don’t want to lose the sale.
00:32:43.895 –> 00:32:55.155
Brattland: So when you have two people having this fear, the fear of the prospect making a bad decision or not knowing how to buy, the fear of the salesperson not making the sale, and losing the commission.
00:32:55.155 –> 00:33:02.695
Brattland: And so what typically happens is the owners, who are drivers, egos, want to take control of the sales conversation.
00:33:02.695 –> 00:33:05.015
Brattland: So they’ll say, oh, great Jim, thank you.
00:33:05.015 –> 00:33:05.995
Brattland: You’ve done a great job.
00:33:05.995 –> 00:33:06.895
Brattland: It was a great demo.
00:33:06.895 –> 00:33:07.735
Brattland: Why don’t I do this?
00:33:07.735 –> 00:33:10.035
Brattland: Why don’t you give me a call next week?
00:33:10.035 –> 00:33:11.735
Brattland: I’m going to talk to my partners.
00:33:11.735 –> 00:33:13.135
Brattland: I’m really excited about this.
00:33:13.135 –> 00:33:13.855
Brattland: It all looks good.
00:33:13.855 –> 00:33:14.715
Brattland: Why don’t you send me over?
00:33:14.715 –> 00:33:16.535
Brattland: In fact, why don’t you get me over a proposal?
00:33:16.535 –> 00:33:17.575
Brattland: Send it over to me.
00:33:17.575 –> 00:33:21.955
Brattland: I’ll show it to my partners, and then follow up with me next week, and we can go from there.
00:33:22.595 –> 00:33:24.255
Brattland: What do we say to salespeople?
00:33:24.255 –> 00:33:25.995
Brattland: Oh, great.
00:33:25.995 –> 00:33:26.415
Brattland: Yes.
00:33:26.415 –> 00:33:27.695
Brattland: We want to say yes.
00:33:27.775 –> 00:33:28.455
Brattland: We’re yes.
00:33:28.455 –> 00:33:29.795
Brattland: Yes, yes, I can do that.
00:33:29.795 –> 00:33:31.515
Brattland: Yes, I can get that proposal together.
00:33:31.515 –> 00:33:32.395
Brattland: Yes.
00:33:32.395 –> 00:33:34.935
Brattland: Then we go back to the office and they say, how did it go?
00:33:34.935 –> 00:33:35.895
Brattland: Oh, it was great.
00:33:35.895 –> 00:33:36.715
Brattland: I got a hot one.
00:33:37.435 –> 00:33:39.155
Brattland: I think we’re going to get it.
00:33:39.155 –> 00:33:40.835
Brattland: I’m going to go look at my new car right now.
00:33:40.835 –> 00:33:44.535
Brattland: I’m looking at ordering this new car, get this commission.
00:33:44.535 –> 00:33:48.175
Brattland: Then a week goes by and we try to get ahold of the person.
00:33:48.175 –> 00:33:48.995
Brattland: I got this proposal.
00:33:48.995 –> 00:33:50.095
Brattland: Well, I haven’t talked to the owner.
00:33:50.155 –> 00:33:51.175
Brattland: I’ve got a lot going on.
00:33:51.175 –> 00:33:52.155
Brattland: My business is going here.
00:33:52.155 –> 00:33:54.875
Brattland: So the bottom line is this.
00:33:54.875 –> 00:33:56.715
Brattland: You need to jump them.
00:33:56.715 –> 00:34:06.275
Brattland: You need what I call beat them to the punch and simply explain to them what it takes for them to own your product or service.
00:34:06.275 –> 00:34:08.115
Brattland: It’s not that difficult.
00:34:08.115 –> 00:34:31.215
Brattland: So as soon as you’re done presenting your proposal, what it is you presented to the prospect, once they received all the information, before they want to take the ball and tell you, you got to say, now Jim, let me just tell you what the next step is.
00:34:31.215 –> 00:34:37.235
Brattland: If this is something you’re least considering, which it looks like you are, right?
00:34:37.235 –> 00:34:41.535
Brattland: Because you have to get that confirmation first, and that’s what you did in your presentation.
00:34:41.535 –> 00:34:42.575
Brattland: That’s why I was so impressed.
00:34:42.575 –> 00:34:49.075
Brattland: You have to get a confirmation, well, yeah, I guess I’m considering, who wouldn’t be considering it if they went through all these present?
00:34:49.075 –> 00:34:51.855
Brattland: You could be on your third, fourth call with this company at this point.
00:34:51.855 –> 00:34:57.035
Brattland: It’s time to explain to them what it takes for them to own, and simply go through the steps.
00:34:57.035 –> 00:35:06.115
Brattland: Well, let me tell you what the next step is, and then walk through step by step what it takes for them to buy.
00:35:06.115 –> 00:35:10.015
Brattland: If you’re selling point-and-sale software, it could look something like this.
00:35:11.335 –> 00:35:17.015
Brattland: The next step is to fill out what we call the paperwork or the application.
00:35:17.015 –> 00:35:19.055
Brattland: I never say the word contract.
00:35:20.095 –> 00:35:24.755
Brattland: But make sure that that paperwork and that agreement is non-binding.
00:35:26.615 –> 00:35:32.555
Brattland: The hardest part is to get a signature or to get that paperwork start.
00:35:32.555 –> 00:35:37.795
Brattland: But so make that a no risk, no obligation opportunity.
00:35:37.795 –> 00:35:47.375
Brattland: So you simply explain, we just have some simple paperwork, it takes me about five minutes, I just need to get some basic information from you, and then I’ll submit it, I’ll get the paperwork, that takes me a couple of days to get approval.
00:35:47.375 –> 00:35:49.315
Brattland: Then I’m going to call you back, Jim.
00:35:49.315 –> 00:36:01.835
Brattland: The next step after that is that you can tell us, you talk to your partner, you thought it over, whatever, let’s go forward to get your confirmation to set up what we call our installation date.
00:36:01.895 –> 00:36:14.055
Brattland: Then between that, we’re going to build your menus, we’re going to come out and do this, we’re going to set up an installation date, where we’re going to come out and install everything for you, and then we’re going to set up a time to go live.
00:36:14.055 –> 00:36:19.835
Brattland: This whole process, the next step then would be, we come out and train your people and go live.
00:36:19.835 –> 00:36:22.275
Brattland: This whole process could take 30 days.
00:36:22.275 –> 00:36:29.715
Brattland: Now, I want you to know, Jim, if during those 30 days, something happens, you have a change of heart, no hard feelings.
00:36:31.355 –> 00:36:42.575
Brattland: So since this is something you’re considering, and since there’s no cost or obligation to at least get that paperwork started, why don’t we at least get started with that?
00:36:42.575 –> 00:36:44.755
Brattland: Does that sound fair?
00:36:44.755 –> 00:36:50.795
Brattland: So that whole last sentence you said, Jim, why don’t we at least get started with that?
00:36:50.795 –> 00:36:52.675
Brattland: Does that sound fair?
00:36:52.675 –> 00:36:55.615
Brattland: That is a very soft close.
00:36:55.615 –> 00:36:58.615
Brattland: If you want to call it a close, it’s very hard for them.
00:36:58.615 –> 00:37:00.255
Brattland: They’ve got to now come up with reason.
00:37:00.255 –> 00:37:06.035
Brattland: I don’t want to say this is manipulative, but they now have to think to themselves as an owner, why wouldn’t I want to do?
00:37:06.035 –> 00:37:06.795
Brattland: Well, what’s the risk?
00:37:07.315 –> 00:37:10.935
Brattland: Every owner wants to think about risk, or every decision maker, it’s all about risk.
00:37:11.555 –> 00:37:14.055
Brattland: Well, yeah, I guess, why?
00:37:15.235 –> 00:37:20.195
Brattland: I can’t come up with a reason, Jim, why I wouldn’t want to at least do that, if I’ve sat with you this far.
00:37:20.195 –> 00:37:23.895
Brattland: So that’s the process, that’s how I came up with it.
00:37:23.895 –> 00:37:32.495
Brattland: I don’t have to teach my salespeople 22 different, I want to think it over, the Benjamin Franklin clothes, my dear old mother clothes.
00:37:32.515 –> 00:37:38.115
Brattland: So it’s just, that’s the only clothes you need to know in sales.
00:37:38.115 –> 00:37:39.015
Roddy: Yes.
00:37:39.015 –> 00:37:46.755
Roddy: What I like about it is, me as a salesperson, I don’t want to be pushy and I don’t want to be manipulative.
00:37:46.755 –> 00:37:51.475
Roddy: Also, for their end, I don’t want to be pushed and I don’t want to be manipulated.
00:37:51.475 –> 00:38:02.995
Roddy: Again, the audience that I guess the RSPA has, that probably a lot of our other RSPA members also have is, like independent business owners, entrepreneurial, they don’t want to be told what to do.
00:38:03.875 –> 00:38:13.595
Roddy: That’s what I guess what I really liked about it is, your next step close, it’s you setting the terms of the next steps, but without being pushy or manipulative.
00:38:13.595 –> 00:38:15.095
Roddy: You’re getting them to say, yeah, that seems fair.
00:38:15.095 –> 00:38:16.615
Brattland: Well, it’s an educational close.
00:38:16.615 –> 00:38:22.895
Brattland: You’re just simply educating them on the process of what it takes for them to own.
00:38:24.015 –> 00:38:24.775
Brattland: They don’t know how to buy.
00:38:24.915 –> 00:38:26.275
Brattland: They don’t know how to process.
00:38:26.655 –> 00:38:34.895
Brattland: You got to educate them on the processes of what it would take for them to own whatever it is yourself.
00:38:34.895 –> 00:38:35.775
Roddy: Yeah.
00:38:35.775 –> 00:38:36.155
Roddy: Well said.
00:38:36.155 –> 00:38:41.035
Roddy: I have a couple more questions for you, Dan, in the time that we have left and again, thanks for presenting at RetailNOW.
00:38:41.075 –> 00:38:46.675
Roddy: It was super helpful for me, it’s helpful for our team and I know for our members, we had a lot of positive feedback on it as well.
00:38:46.675 –> 00:38:53.775
Roddy: So I want to get your take on a leadership communication principle that I think is important and I want to hear if you feel it’s important how you execute on it.
00:38:54.255 –> 00:39:03.235
Roddy: The principle is people who work for them, who you’re leading, the people work for them or with them, feel that they are in the information loop.
00:39:03.235 –> 00:39:06.615
Roddy: I’m curious, how do you do that with your team?
00:39:06.615 –> 00:39:16.535
Roddy: What have you found to be the most successful ways of keeping your people in the loop without sharing secrets that you shouldn’t have or without overwhelming them with too much information?
00:39:16.535 –> 00:39:19.475
Roddy: What do you do to keep your team in the information loop?
00:39:20.835 –> 00:39:23.335
Brattland: There’s two things I think about in that situation.
00:39:23.475 –> 00:39:31.695
Brattland: One is, don’t be afraid to be transparent when it comes to the behind the scenes numbers.
00:39:32.735 –> 00:39:36.575
Brattland: My staff knows my P&Ls.
00:39:36.575 –> 00:39:41.775
Brattland: I’m not afraid to tell them our gross revenues, our net revenues, so they understand.
00:39:41.775 –> 00:39:47.175
Brattland: Because that comes in handy too when business is tough or business is down.
00:39:49.015 –> 00:39:57.255
Brattland: I was getting into a communication skill when it comes to percentage, when it comes to commission percentage, and whether it be 10%, 20%, 50%.
00:39:58.295 –> 00:40:10.455
Brattland: However, when I explained to that, when I showed the transparency, hey, I just want you to know, Jim, if I pay you this percentage, you’re actually making more money than me on every sale.
00:40:10.455 –> 00:40:14.975
Brattland: They go, wait a minute, I’m only making 20% commission, you’re making 80%.
00:40:14.995 –> 00:40:19.515
Brattland: I go, well, wait a minute, let me show you my expenses.
00:40:21.195 –> 00:40:25.795
Brattland: My margin on that, my profit margin is only 15%, and you’re making 20%.
00:40:26.935 –> 00:40:29.375
Brattland: So you don’t have any risk.
00:40:29.375 –> 00:40:36.895
Brattland: So you would be making, so that, oh, once they see that, then now they’re not thinking, oh, you’re making this and I’m making this.
00:40:38.335 –> 00:40:45.855
Brattland: It’s in your benefit to be transparent and don’t be afraid, oh, I don’t want them to see how much money I’m making.
00:40:45.855 –> 00:40:47.595
Brattland: People want to work for successful people.
00:40:48.215 –> 00:40:56.095
Brattland: So I’m not afraid to show them when business is good, and when, now, you might say, well, they’re going to ask for a raise, or they see how much money you make.
00:40:56.095 –> 00:41:08.795
Brattland: I’ve never had a situation where I showed our P&Ls, or our best and rough, what our profits are for the year, or quarterly income.
00:41:08.795 –> 00:41:23.055
Brattland: Pretend you’re a public company, where everything is transparent, and that’s number one, is don’t be afraid to be transparent with your people that you want to be with for a long time, and have for a long time.
00:41:23.055 –> 00:41:26.175
Brattland: They feel like they have an ownership at stake too.
00:41:26.175 –> 00:41:29.675
Brattland: And number two, don’t be afraid to tell them the big picture.
00:41:29.675 –> 00:41:35.275
Brattland: I always communicate what the end game is, what the big picture is.
00:41:35.275 –> 00:41:43.515
Brattland: People feel like they’re in the loop if they know what the future, what your future, what you’re thinking, Mr.
00:41:43.515 –> 00:41:44.455
Brattland: President, Mr.
00:41:44.455 –> 00:41:49.315
Brattland: Owner, what is, I’m part of this, but what is your vision down the road?
00:41:49.315 –> 00:41:51.315
Brattland: Where are we going long term?
00:41:51.315 –> 00:42:00.095
Brattland: If they feel they’re in the loop and knowing what the vision is, then that to me keeps them in this loop.
00:42:00.095 –> 00:42:03.755
Brattland: People have a feeling like they know we’re all part of this together.
00:42:03.755 –> 00:42:04.615
Brattland: So that’s two things.
00:42:04.615 –> 00:42:10.735
Brattland: Don’t be afraid to be transparent and never be afraid to let people know what that big picture is.
00:42:10.735 –> 00:42:11.335
Roddy: Thank you for that.
00:42:11.335 –> 00:42:14.695
Roddy: And the big picture reminds me of the two brick layers and one’s like, what do you do?
00:42:14.695 –> 00:42:16.495
Roddy: I’m a brick layer and the other one says, what are you doing?
00:42:16.495 –> 00:42:20.835
Roddy: I am building the world’s greatest cathedral, because he sees the end in mine.
00:42:20.835 –> 00:42:24.835
Roddy: How often do you talk with your team about the big picture?
00:42:24.835 –> 00:42:32.295
Roddy: Because to me, there’s a thing of where sometimes people are like, I’m interested in your big picture, you’re interested in the RSPA’s big picture.
00:42:32.295 –> 00:42:35.455
Roddy: But a lot of times folks are like, I just like to do my job.
00:42:35.455 –> 00:42:38.615
Roddy: I don’t need to hear about the big picture every day.
00:42:39.095 –> 00:42:40.875
Roddy: What are your thoughts on that?
00:42:41.575 –> 00:42:45.295
Brattland: You do it when the opportunity opens itself up.
00:42:45.295 –> 00:42:53.995
Brattland: I had one of my key employees come into my office today talking about how this conversion is going that we’re doing.
00:42:55.755 –> 00:43:01.495
Brattland: So the opportunity state, I said, this is great because let me tell you what the future is here.
00:43:01.495 –> 00:43:05.235
Brattland: What our goal is, our goal is next by next year, we want to get here.
00:43:05.415 –> 00:43:11.975
Brattland: So you wait for the opportunity, the opportunity will come to you.
00:43:11.975 –> 00:43:17.535
Brattland: You don’t have this, okay, I’m going to meet with my on every Wednesday, I’m going to meet with somebody and talk about the big picture.
00:43:17.535 –> 00:43:33.015
Brattland: Just when the opportunity presents itself, expand on it and always let that person know, here’s the reason why this is so important because down the road, this is where we’re going and this is where we need to get to.
00:43:33.015 –> 00:43:38.855
Brattland: So I would say, I have no plan in place as to how often I do it.
00:43:39.015 –> 00:43:42.675
Brattland: I just do it when the opportunity presents itself.
00:43:42.675 –> 00:43:42.955
Roddy: Got it.
00:43:42.955 –> 00:43:47.335
Roddy: Where it seems like it’s natural to bring it to the conversation as opposed to this thing.
00:43:47.335 –> 00:43:48.595
Roddy: So all right.
00:43:48.595 –> 00:43:49.555
Roddy: Last question for you, Dan.
00:43:49.555 –> 00:43:51.215
Roddy: So we’ve covered a ton today.
00:43:51.215 –> 00:43:56.115
Roddy: I’m curious, what would be your final advice for our audience related to leadership and communication?
00:43:56.115 –> 00:44:04.275
Roddy: Like let’s say you have a three-minute ride share with a small business leader and they’re like, Dan, what would be your best advice for me on leadership and communication?
00:44:06.835 –> 00:44:09.615
Brattland: Try to become a flexible thinker.
00:44:09.615 –> 00:44:12.915
Brattland: Effective leaders are flexible thinkers.
00:44:13.975 –> 00:44:22.055
Brattland: Think about being a spouse, a good husband, I can speak in from a male is a flexible.
00:44:22.055 –> 00:44:25.755
Brattland: You have to be a flexible thinker to stay married a long time.
00:44:25.755 –> 00:44:27.215
Brattland: Let’s just say.
00:44:28.335 –> 00:44:32.875
Brattland: So when I say flexible thinker as a leader, don’t be afraid of dissent.
00:44:33.355 –> 00:44:39.595
Brattland: I think good leaders look forward to having difference of opinions.
00:44:39.595 –> 00:44:46.815
Brattland: The more narrow minded you are, the less effective you’re going to be as a leader.
00:44:46.815 –> 00:44:53.655
Brattland: So I would give the advice of really try to be, not be the smartest person in the room.
00:44:54.915 –> 00:45:02.195
Brattland: Be okay with other people being smarter than you, taking in information, never being afraid to change your mind.
00:45:03.115 –> 00:45:05.675
Brattland: Change with input.
00:45:05.675 –> 00:45:17.395
Brattland: So I sit on a board and I have sat on a board where as a chairman, we have different personalities and I keep getting voted in as a chair.
00:45:17.395 –> 00:45:34.295
Brattland: I think because of that flexibility of being able to take in, even if I have a strong opinion on something and then somebody else disagrees with me, I don’t want to fight that per, I don’t want to prove you’re wrong, I’m right and get in this big day.
00:45:34.295 –> 00:45:38.635
Brattland: I really use those listening skills and look at it from their shoes.
00:45:38.635 –> 00:45:43.975
Brattland: How are they saying that and taking in that information and never being afraid to say, you know what?
00:45:45.735 –> 00:45:47.635
Brattland: I think you’re right.
00:45:47.635 –> 00:45:48.755
Brattland: I think you’re right.
00:45:48.755 –> 00:45:55.875
Brattland: So that’s becoming a flexible thinker, number one, and number two, be true to yourself.
00:45:55.875 –> 00:45:57.915
Brattland: Don’t try to be somebody you’re not.
00:45:58.195 –> 00:46:06.115
Brattland: If you’re not a player’s coach, as I would say, a motivator, a big talker, don’t try to fake it.
00:46:06.115 –> 00:46:07.635
Brattland: You don’t have to be.
00:46:07.635 –> 00:46:11.235
Brattland: Just be who you are as a leader.
00:46:12.535 –> 00:46:13.095
Roddy: Exactly.
00:46:13.095 –> 00:46:13.855
Roddy: Very well said.
00:46:13.855 –> 00:46:16.415
Roddy: Well, that does it for this episode of The Trusted Advisor.
00:46:16.415 –> 00:46:23.435
Roddy: If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to subscribe to the RSPA YouTube channel and The Trusted Advisor podcast so you never miss an episode.
00:46:23.435 –> 00:46:27.515
Roddy: Before we go, big thanks again to Dan Brattland for sharing his wisdom with us today.
00:46:28.015 –> 00:46:36.015
Roddy: Thanks also to RSPA Marketing Director, Chris Arnold for his production work, Joseph McDade for our music, and last but not least, thanks so much to you for listening.
00:46:36.015 –> 00:46:43.095
Roddy: Our goal at the RSPA is to accelerate the success of our members in the retail technology ecosystem by providing knowledge and connections.
00:46:43.095 –> 00:46:46.295
Roddy: For more information, please visit our website at gorspa.org.
00:46:47.435 –> 00:46:50.935
Roddy: Thanks for listening and goodbye everybody.
